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Brettny
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 07:59am
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Thinking for down the road. What's everyone's preferred propane fired thermostat controlled(one with a real thermostat) and dosnt take much power? Do they even make a heater like this?
Thinking about 20kbtu for occasional heat for about 750 Cubic feet of space. We will also have a wood stove.
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paulz
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 08:36am - Edited by: paulz
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My Williams heater uses a millivolt thermostat powered by the LP, no external electricity. I didn't get it with a thermostat, I bought one later. Didn't have much luck with it, it did work but wasn't turning on and off at the set temps. I know this type works, have had the same type in both my old city houses, probably just the cheap one i bought.
https://tinyurl.com/yckhmdtf
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ICC
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 08:56am
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We are talking a direct vent heater?
I have used the Empire brand and their offshoot brand Housewarmer. They have been around since the 1930's. I have not bought any in the last 8 years or so. I have seen their products still advertised but the models may have changed slightly.
The one in the remote cabin is almost 20 years old now. I have only had to replace one part, a simple temperature control snap switch, because of a lightning strike.
If by "real thermostat" you mean a separate wall mounted thermostat they do have some models like that. Some of the lower priced in the ousewarmer brand have a builtin thermostat control... no degree markings, a twist dial with numbers and Lo - High arrows. The one in the cabin is like that. 18K BTU. The control works. I have a mark at my night setting and another at the daytime level.
I specifically chose that one as it can be operated with no electric power at all. There is a 120 VAC fan, but the heater works without it.
Empire also makes those furnaces that insert between wall studs and are common in older mobile homes. The old homestead had a couple of those that had no fans but did have a 24 volt thermostat on the wall.
For me my choice of LP heater begins with whether or not it needs any source of power for thermostat or fan. And it must be a DV type.
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Nate R
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 09:08am
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https://www.williamscomfortprod.com/products/furnaces/direct-vent-detail-page/
I was looking seriously at these before I was able to cheaply get on the grid. Fan is optiona/separate for the larger models, no power required, thermostat controlled. They also make a high efficiency model, but I think that requires power.
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paulz
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 09:18am
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That's exactly what I have. I'm using a 5v usb fan inside instead of a 110v.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 09:46am
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Dosnt really need to be direct vent but I would prefer it. I dont think a in between the studs heater would work to well in my planned space though, there are very few interior walls not taken up by stairs.
That William's one looks nice.
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KelVarnsen
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 09:52am - Edited by: KelVarnsen
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I have a Martin heater. You can get them at Costco. At least you can in Canada. I bought it a couple of years ago but haven’t actually got it installed yet. The build quality is great and it gets great reviews.
Martin Propane Direct Vent Thermostatic Heater 20,000
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 09:57am
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Imo 20k btu is not big enough.
We have 380sf, one big room with open cath ceiling and 48k btu. At 32*f or less it is only adequate.
But the place isnt particularly well built.
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paulz
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 10:00am - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: KelVarnsen I have a Martin heater.
That's a nice looking heater. Need to decide if you want built in thermostat or remote. I like the remote as it can be adjusted (or switched off and on in my case) without getting out of bed. 
Lately I have been waking up in the morning, it's a little cold from the wood stove burning out, so I flick the heater on, wait 15-20 minutes, then get out of bed, make coffee and reload the stove.
I should clarify I'm perhaps overly cautious about the heater having a disable wife in the cabin.
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paulz
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 10:12am - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: gcrank1 Imo 20k btu is not big enough.
Probably depends how much you need to raise the temp from outside, as well as build quality. Mine is 30k btu which is overkill since in my mild climate the most I have had to raise the temp from outside is about 40F, usually only about 20-30.
One other tidbit on mine is the flat grill on top. I often put a pan, gloves or what not on top to warm up. The wood stove is good for that too of course.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 10:16am
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Quoting: gcrank1 Imo 20k btu is not big enough. We have 380sf, one big room with open cath ceiling and 48k btu. At 32*f or less it is only adequate. But the place isnt particularly well built.
I'm thinking 30k is more like what I will need after doing some reading. My square footage includes the cathedral ceiling as adding to the square footage.
This heaters use would always be secondary to a wood stove.
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littlesalmon4
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 11:55am
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I purchased an Empire heater for my daughter to replace an oil Toyo heater. Right out of the box we had problems. Very little support from Empire, they would only talk to a licensed gas fitter so I would have to call out a gas fitter at $120/hour just to try to get answers. If the only source of heat in the world was an Empire heater i would choose to go without. If their factory was closer i would just toss it through the front window. After much trial and error and many parts it seams to be working now but I don't have any trust in it.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 12:52pm
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littlesalmon4's experience was the exact opposite of mine.
I have contacted their customer service twice. We had their brand wall furnaces in a couple of spaces in the old homestead. I don't remember ever needing to service them.
I have contacted them about their DV wall heaters. Both times I needed a high-altitude orifice. The first time I telephoned, the second I believe I used email or maybe a "contact us" click on the website. The person answering the telephone call knew exactly what I meant and sent me what I needed at no charge via first-class mail. Same the time I used email. A DIY operation, no need for a gas installer.
Now, there are some things that may require a licensed service tech in some states. Or some types of work that require a permit. So, it is entirely possible that, depending on the location, a manufacturer may not be able to send certain types of parts. Or it could simply be the old customer service roulette game.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 06:45pm
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I have an Empire heater in my greenhouse in town. It works fine but the pilot light on that sucker is like an afterburner on a fighter jet. It really sucks on the propane even when the main burner isn't firing. So much so that I turn it off in the morning before going to work and then fire it up before I go to bed to conserve LP.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 07:21pm
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We have three DV heaters in our house; they're the sole source of heat. There's a 30KBTU Osburn gas fireplace (millivolt wall thermostat) in the living room, and a 7500BTU Housewarmer heater (built in thermostat) in each of the two back bedrooms. I probably should get another small one for the third bedroom, right now it's heated by a through-the-wall fan that takes warm air near the living room fireplace but it's marginal in cold weather. Been working fine for five years or so.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2021 07:48pm
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N-Rick, iirc there is an adjustment for the pilot on many. If it is 'fixed' you may be able to change the oriface.
But really, the pilot adds to the room btu's so it isnt a waste, it just helps keep the place at temp.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2021 01:07pm
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I'm not really to worried about propane useage because between visits gas would be off. I know on my hanging garage heater the pilot is adjustable.
Since my useage will be so limited do you think a millivolt thermostat really matters?
I really dont want to use a non vented heater because I want to leave it on at night.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2021 03:10pm
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If you want a remote thermostat it'll have to be a millivolt one or it'll require external power to operate.
Actually, our thermostat uses batteries to power its timer so I can run colder at night and heat back up just before I get out of bed, but the output contacts just switch the millivolt circuit powered by the heater's thermopile.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 25 Dec 2021 01:25pm
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Do you know the make and model of that thermostat?
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Shadyacres
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# Posted: 25 Dec 2021 01:48pm
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I have two Empire but at about 2500 each they are not cheap. Also very heavy, I have the ones that sit on the floor. Have not had any trouble with the heaters themselves but the remote thermostat does get finicky from time to time. No power needed.
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Shadyacres
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# Posted: 25 Dec 2021 01:53pm
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I have a picture of the Empire on my thread. (20 x 30 cabin in central PA) Picture was posted on sept 20, 2014. That one is a 20000 btu and I bought a 30000 btu for the bear den.
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Champ7ac
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# Posted: 25 Dec 2021 06:17pm
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We bought this one for our 12 x 24 cabin.
Have been happy with it. The fan is not required for it, but is a nice option. It also has a very simple thermostat.
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200631838_200631838
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 25 Dec 2021 08:39pm
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Quoting: Champ7ac We bought this one for our 12 x 24 cabin
 That's a Housewarmer like mine, just a touch smaller; 15K vs 18K. An Empire brand
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Fanman
Member
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2021 10:05am
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Quoting: Brettny Do you know the make and model of that thermostat?
Not sure of the model, but it's a Honeywell. Many standard thermostats are suitable for millivolt operation, as long as they don't need power from the furnace to run a timer or other functions.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2021 07:58pm
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Quoting: gcrank1 N-Rick, iirc there is an adjustment for the pilot on many. If it is 'fixed' you may be able to change the oriface. But really, the pilot adds to the room btu's so it isnt a waste, it just helps keep the place at temp.
I'll have to look into that. However, for this particular use, burning propane during the day is a waste. It's a greenhouse so once the sun hits it I don't need any extra BTUs. That sucker can go from 25F to 75F in a couple of hours once the sun comes up.
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Ptomaine
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# Posted: 29 Dec 2021 11:03pm
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I have a 30,000 btu Wiilliams direct vent heater in my 400 sq ft cabin. As mentioned earlier in this thread, it uses no electricity. It did come with the cheapest bi-metal thermostat they could find. It worked, but there was about an 8 degree swing between shutting off and restarting the heater. I replaced it with an inexpensive ($18) Lux digital programable thermostat that keeps the cabin at a very constant temperature. Spend the extra dollar or two to get the programable feature; it is nice being able to sleep at a lower temperature and have it come back up in the morning. I was at the cabin last week. With below zero (F) temps, snow and gusty winds outside. I was quite comfy inside.
I have a 30,000 btu Wiilliams direct vent heater in my 400 sq ft cabin. As mentioned earlier in this thread, it uses no electricity. It did come with the cheapest bi-metal thermostat they could find. It worked, but there was about an 8 degree swing between shutting off and restarting the heater. I replaced it with an inexpensive ($18) Lux digital programable thermostat that keeps the cabin at a very constant temperature. Spend the extra dollar or two to get the programable feature; it is nice being able to sleep at a lower temperature and have it come back up in the morning. I was at the cabin last week. With below zero (F) temps, snow and gusty winds outside. I was quite comfy inside.
https://i.imgur.com/zLPUMVf.jpg
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paulz
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# Posted: 31 Dec 2021 10:44am
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Quoting: Ptomaine It worked, but there was about an 8 degree swing between shutting off and restarting the heater.
Pretty much the experience I had with a cheap millivolt thermostat.
I'm getting a 'not safe' message clicking on your link.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 31 Dec 2021 11:48am
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All thermostats have some hysteresis between the on and off position... if they didn't it'd be be clicking on and off too often. 8 degrees seems excessive, though.
Simple (non electronic) thermostats used with a 24VDC control circuit often have an "anticipator" circuit containing a tiny electric heater to make it turn off slightly early to anticipate the heat that's still making its way from the heater to the thermostat. Often there's an internal adjustment for that function. This kind of thermostat won't work with a millivolt system as it requires the 24VDC power provided by the furnace control.
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Ptomaine
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# Posted: 1 Jan 2022 10:56am
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(...) I'm getting a 'not safe' message clicking on your link.
Not sure why. It just goes to my imgur account page and I get no warning using three different browsers (none of them are from Microsoft) or from anti virus programs. checked on two computers and phone.
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paulz
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# Posted: 1 Jan 2022 11:28am - Edited by: paulz
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My bad, I'm at the cabin, where I have to pay for internet* and it works fine. I see your heater, same as mine, but not the thermostat you bought.
*At my city house I get my wifi from the school that borders my back fence. They block some internet content, I guess so the students don't fart around all day.
Sorry to make you have to check..
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