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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2024 14:00
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Great info as always Steve. 
I’m relying on the internal BMSs in my Valence batteries. I do have a Victron ‘battery protector’ (little blue box) between the bank and inverter. It’s stamped BP 12/24-100. Maybe it turns off momentarily?
I have heard that ‘beep’ before, when running the microwave and toaster at the same time I think it was. Inverter screen goes out then comes back on its own.
We’re living here full time mostly so I won’t be testing the planer again through the bank, too many critical things to risk it. Genny right here.
Lithiums migrating and eventually replacing car starters etc. is an interesting subject I love reading about (rely on you for that info).
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2024 15:48
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Paul & Others, I am pretty much dropping into "observer" mode moving forward. It's been coming for a while (call it burnout if ya want). NOT because of our Cabineer folks !
I am now just finishing my Finalized Home System and the last of the exterior projects and completing the details & touches next spring in prep for selling my place by Fall 2025. Dumped the truck collection and a lot of other things, still a lot to clear out as my projects finish up and then I'll just fade away from the web.
Too bad the girls (daughters) didn't want the place nor the business. I tried but nope, so tough nuggets.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2024 17:50
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Oh no! What will we do, we have enough rotted foundation experts around here!
Totally understand, life changes… Hope you continue to read up on us and say hi once in awhile my friend.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2024 18:00
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Well, as all things have their time, last week I ended up in Hospital "again" and a new circus (heart, this time) is about to start & I've had my fill. DNR is signed & on file. They've been clearly told that I only need to get to Sept.2025 and after that is MOOT.
I've pulled back a lot from the DIYSolarForum and other places, focussing on my things and filling time here & there whenever.
One big PITA for me... is what to do with the solar gear inventory... ohh well, likely goto recycle & get crushed.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2024 18:55
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Quoting: Steve_S Too bad the girls (daughters) didn't want the place nor the business
I know how that goes. My kids have professions they love, and I support their choices. My brothers have zero interest in ranching, nor do any other relatives. So, with the blessing of the immediate family, we have been selling pieces of the ranch. Sort of sad after all the decades, but I understand. Ranching can be arduous.
I have some understanding regarding health issues as well. I have been working with my cardiologist team in a heart health rehab program and they are optimistic, so we'll just have to see how that plays out. I don't plan on selling home or cabin as long as I can look after myself. We'll see how that goes, too.
Best of good fortune to you Steve. May things work out in whatever scenario that suits your desires.
I have given away some stuff to the Habitat for Humanity Re-Store as well as some thru the local FreeCycle organization.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 5 Jul 2024 20:52
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After the whole Necrotic Pneumonia "adventure" and what came after that I hit my "redline". Never really came back from it and just more things have piled on.
The girls have no careers, "bus-girl (24)", "wanna-be roughneck in the Yukon (22)" & a "waitress (20)".. A bit of shipping & handling, some light electronics (bench) work, taking/making payments & processing orders... and a hell of a margin when running properly. Not Hard work by any means. Ces't Finis.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 6 Jul 2024 23:55 - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: Steve_S The girls have no careers, "bus-girl (24)", "wanna-be roughneck in the Yukon (22)" & a "waitress (20)"
Gee if you add them all together I’m still older.
Today was another sun baker out here so I fooled around in the cabin which stayed 10-15 cooler all day. I grabbed this dead light, the 4 AA batteries had rusted out the connections. I cut those out and cobbled on a lithium battery, as well as a usb cable. Excuse the tape job, still in test mode. It does still work in the motion detection mode, so that’s a win. I can just run it off the battery (18650) or will run without it and usb plugged in. My question is can I leave it plugged in with the 18650 or is that too much charge voltage?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2024 00:33 - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: paulz . My question is can I leave it plugged in with the 18650 or is that too much charge voltage?
I assume there is a charger board in there someplace? Or is the usb input and 18650 cell in parallel? In parallel would not be good. The usb voltage would be higher than the maximum voltage for a li-ion cell. With a charger circuit in there it could be good. Depends on the charger circuit. Lithium chargers are supposed to cut off the charging completely when the voltage reaches "full", usually 4.2 volts for the usual 18650 chemistry. Then it should stay off until the voltage drops some, when it would charge and cutoff again. Li-ion have very low self discharge so if un-used that should take a long time.
Then there is the question of the quality and condition of the 18650 cell? If something goes wrong with the charger or the cell, the li-ion cell can burn intensely.
That said, I do have a few li-ion lamps I have made with integral charger circuits. Good quality components with known high quality cells. I don't worry about them.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 7 Jul 2024 01:07 - Edited by: paulz
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Thanks ICC. No charger, just the batt and usb cable in parallel replacing the AA batts. Yeah I figured it was too much charge, though the 18650 does say overcharge protection.
Don’t need both, not sure where I’ll use it, either plugged in sans batt or with batt only.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 9 Jul 2024 20:12 - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: paulz Well he ended up buying 3 of these. 644$ out the door
My friends got his new LFPs. Also a proper charger. Was over there yesterday, he was checking their SOC with his phone! Got an app., Bluetooth..Nice.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2024 22:34 - Edited by: gcrank1
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My #1 100ah lfp finally hit bottom today at 10.2vdv where it shut off (I think the inverter lvd not the bms).
It started at 13.3vdc 3 months ago!, No recharging in between, remarkable.
Swapped in #2 at 13.2+ to give it the same go.
I intend to typically stop at 12.8ish vdc.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2024 22:53 - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: gcrank1 My #1 100ah lfp finally hit bottom today at 10.2vdv
Wow that’s ballsy. At 12.7 i get panicky.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 3 Aug 2024 23:29
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12.8 has been my bottom 'stop point', often 13.0/12,9 as the voltage sag with bigger loads may not run well (or at all).
At those voltages we are well into the 'knee' and falling off quick; ie, the sag will put the inverter into shut down but led lights will likely still run.
Id never done a full cycle of these bats in 2ish years, figured it was time.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2024 14:46
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Not sure at all if my LVD at 10.2v was the inverter or the BMS....
I was right there anticipating and as the fans shut off I flipped the inverter switch off. I had some voltage recovery with no load to 10.8 and I decided to give it some charge rather than let it languish so low.
One hour last night on my 20a 'car' charger set on Gel (battery) brought it up to 13.1. I stopped it there and this morning it's at 13.0. Im running it another hour at 10a and will likely let it sit at whatever it hits for storage in the cool basement. Unlike LA the LFP doesnt need to be kept/stored at full charge.
Im running on the swap battery at the cabin so it could be a fair long time until I need this one. When I do I will bring it quickly up to full.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2024 15:15 - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: gcrank1 One hour last night on my 20a 'car' charger set on Gel (battery)
That's a nice charger. I checked all my car chargers, none have a gel setting. The Meanwells are at the cabin hard wired so I really can't charge a lfp at the grid house, not that I need to.
Glad that 10v one seems to have come back.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2024 15:30
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An FYI for those who like the Valence Batteries, BatteryHookup got a pile of them in, 138AH for $175, and 118AH for $150 which are pretty darn good deal IMO.
There is of course a pile of other goodies but...
https://batteryhookup.com/search?q=valence
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2024 16:11
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Wow, I bought into lfp a couple years ago when the prices were (much) higher thinking that I better do it before they went up.....
Oh well, I Needed bats anyway and putting in more LA seemed a poor choice for me.
If then was now Id be All Over getting Lots of lfp (unless in a temp zone where freezing was an issue).
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2024 16:50
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Hmmm the cost of my 1st LFP pack back in the day would pay for 2 packs now. How did I end up with 7x280AH I dunno, a bug bit me and I went forward LOL... All coming to a conclusion now, thank goodness.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2024 18:31
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Yeah that’s less than half what I paid. They may be pretty old, mine are dated 2012, if that matters. Also I think Valence sold out to another company, again whatever that means.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2024 18:39
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I guess I could buy a couple more 100ah lfp's and cost average out my then 4.....
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 5 Aug 2024 19:08
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Another interesting thing in the web site: it says they don’t really have a BMS in the true sense. They have an internal comm system to another component. Always thought they did, that was the flashing green led.
So I guess I don’t have a BMS. I do have a low voltage cutoff but for charging, they are at the mercy of the solar controller setting.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 6 Aug 2024 21:52 - Edited by: paulz
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Heard from my pal today with the Lfp 100s. I had asked if, when he showed me the battery data from his iPhone via Bluetooth if it was from the batteries themselves or the charger he had them plugged into. This was his reply. Are they all this way now?
Yeah, these new LIFEPO4 batteries have a BMS system battery management system on board and you can access it via an app on your smartphone via Bluetooth so the data was actually coming from the battery. The Bluetooth range isn't good. You have to be within 15 ft to get the data....a Wi-Fi solution would have been better.
https://www.small-cabin.com/forum/shared_files/uploaded/10900/168776_1_o.jpeg
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2024 00:33
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Quoting: paulz Are they all this way now?
I don't about "all" but Bluetooth is common now. And some have better range than others. My SOK range is about 30 feet though 25 feet connects faster than any further distance. Some of the firmware in the BMS can be iffy as well. The SOK I have does have very accurate individual cell and total voltage reading. The current also seems to be very accurate. However, many users with multiple connects batteries do seem to run into inaccurate SOC readings. Sometimes over time the readings on multiple batteries in a system can diverge a lot.
A wired connection may be more reliable but those require more hardware to make the readings available. Everyone with a phone has Bluetooth but does not necessarily have wi-fi on site, so Bluetooth is a natural first offering, IMO.
(I have no wi-fi at my cabin for example. Good cell coverage, but no wi-fi.)
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2024 01:44
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Yes divergence on battery pack SOC is a royal PITA and some BMS's are good, some OK and some lousy. It all depends on how accurately they sample the voltage & amperage going through. Bluetooth makes it a lot easier for sure, it's all BLE so quite limited distance & low power (unfortunately not for the phones).
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2024 14:54
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It’s a whole new world! I have next to no Bluetooth experience, although I did recently put a TY speaker by my head so I could hear the darn thing. Connected to my cabin battery pack, if I could? Not sure what that would buy me, already have hard wired volt/amp meters, good enough to know rough SOC, especially if the battery BMSs can be sketchy.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2024 16:52
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Dog chews lithium battery, starts house fire.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xAhe8tAwcDE
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2024 19:05
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Quoting: paulz Not sure what that would buy me, already have hard wired volt/amp meters,
Bluetooth simply saves the walk to the wall where the meters are located. And in the case of the SOK battery Bluetooth provides voltage readings of each cell individually and allows the BMS to be shutdown for storage or safety if relocating the battery. The output voltage stthe terminals can be turned completely off and the BMS uses absolute zero current. Zero drain.
My biggest use for Bluetooth is to pair my phone with my hearing aids. All voice communication goes direct from phone to hearing aid. Plus music, audio books, TV sound if & when I am watching solo. The phone-hearing aids thing alone makes the invention of Bluetooth the most helpful electronic doodad that I have.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2024 19:18
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And the Garmin navigator I had in my Bearhawk had a Bluetooth connection to my phone that made data entry easier for me. The Garmin in my Tacoma also connects to phone with Bluetooth. Just handier than poking at the device itself.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 7 Aug 2024 20:24 - Edited by: paulz
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Quoting: ICC My biggest use for Bluetooth is to pair my phone with my hearing aids.
Yeah I forgot, my hearing aids have an iPhone app (Phillips) so I can turn up the volume etc. from the phone instead of futzing around behind your ear. I know that uses Bluetooth because it told me to turn it on the other day. I can probably use them for phone conversations etc. but my hearing isn’t quite that bad yet. Now if they had an app that would help me see better. Don’t tell me they can control my glasses..
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