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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 08:24am
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One of the prerequisites my wife had for when she agreed to let me build the cabin was an indoor toilet/bathroom. I'll admit, not having to wander outside in the middle of the night for a number 1 or god forbid a #2...especially in the middle of winter! So i've been looking at toilet options.
What i do know is that i don't want a black tank system like out camper. I'm done with it. Tired of it, don't want to go back to it. So i've been looking at composting/waterless options. I think i've narrowed it down to the Natures Head unit and the Separette units. Keep in mind we are a family of 3 and our visits are primarily weekend visits with the occasional long weekend or multi day stay throughout the year. Cabin is located in northern WI.
Does anyone have any experience with either of those units? I'm leaning towards the Separette unit at this point. I like that it looks more like a real toilet, the wife will like that you don't see down the poop chute as the door opens automatically as you sit down. I also like that i can plumb the urine container to the outside so it's one less thing to spill inside. Also like that the poop chute appears to be a larger opening than the Natures Head to minimize "debris" in the bowl. Only thing i don't like is that it's just a bucket under a bowl...i liked the idea of using peat moss/coconut coi/sawdust to minimize the thought of just a bag of poo.
Anyways, any feedback on those products or if i should be considering another brand/model?
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 08:53am
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Incinerator toilet? You have the electrical for it.
Tim, Ohio
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jhp
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 09:12am
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Are you going to heat the place year round?
If you don't the Natures Head ones seem like they could be problematic with the whole churning mechanism. I would think you'd need to get it spotless before you left to ensure it still works properly the next time you come and thaw it out.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 09:17am
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Quoting: Tim_Ohio Incinerator toilet?
$$$$$
Quoting: jhp Are you going to heat the place year round?
No, just when we are there. That's another plus i guess of the Separett unit is that i can easily grab the bag out of the bucket before we leave as we take our other trash back home to dispose of it since we don't have garbage pickup up there. Whereas the Natures Head unit we'd either have to take the gamble and leave it until next time or go through the emptying and cleaning process every time before we left.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 09:49am
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First things first, urine separation is an Absolute Must ! without that, whatever you do is going to be a lot more involved (and costly too). I looked at many commercial options including the sparett but eventually decided to just go with my own Sawdust Toilet with a WeePee Urine Separator and I also installed a Urinal (what do you do 8 of 10 times in the Loo ?) and THAT certainly was a good plan.
The Urine diverted from the Sawdust Toilet and the Urinal all go to the Grey Water system along with Kitchen/Washroom sink & shower..
NOTE ON SAWDUST TOILETS for those interested.
NEVER EVER use wood like Cedar ! It won't decompose as required. Always try to use softwood sawdust, shavings, hardwood sawdust is OK but takes longer for it to decomp so you have to let it sit in compost pile longer.
If you have access to local lumber mills selling sawdust / shaving great. If not, Softwood Shavings as used for Hamsters/Gerbils - pets- works quite well and is Very Cheap.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 10:38am - Edited by: gcrank1
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Sawdust? Yer gonna be making a bunch of it! Just dont use p.treated either.
About every community has somebody doing woodworking, some have vac systems so it is easy to retrieve a bag or bucket full now and then. And every lumberyard does cutting, bet you could get a bucket full anytime.
Plan ahead 
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tfsimmons
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 11:15am
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We have an outhouse with a sawdust bucket toilet and it serves us really well. No smell, minimal fuss. I get free sawdust from a local lumberyard. Most of the time the family just runs up to the property for the afternoon or day with the occasional sleep over, so we don't have a large volume. We just pull the bag out and take it home with us.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 11:29am
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Separett offers a urine diverting part in case you want to build your own setup. Thought about that, but want something more official looking.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 12:01pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Ours is pretty much only the two of us. I often 'mark my territory' at the time of need depending on where Im at/what Im doing (dont use the same place, spread the joy) and use a hospital pee-bottle (saved a few from my many stays) overnight or bad weather. That keeps most of the urine out of the 'system' and we have never had an issue even over multi day stays. I keep the requirements simple for my wife.
Will, you could build a sawdust bucket system in a nice 'box' with a normal seat, a 'drop tube' and urine diverter and a manual 'baffle' to emulate that pricey commercial unit. Ive seen some pretty handsome looking diy set ups online.
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Steve961
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 12:22pm - Edited by: Steve961
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I recommend you take a look at the C-Head unit as well. I have had mine for several years now and really like it. It has urine separation, which is a must, and can be collected internally or diverted to a drain line. it's super easy to clean, uses easily modifiable 5 gallon buckets for storage, and looks more like a real toilet than most anything else on the market.
C-Head Toilet
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saultfish
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 04:20pm - Edited by: saultfish
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Separette, after months of deliberation and research this is the unit our family of 4 settled on. We plumbed the liquids to a small outdoors gray water system and after figuring your correct seating placement when using it works great(the 5 year had no problems, the 47 year old wife had a few issues but learned quick to avoid having to clean up after a few missed diversions!). The only drawback has been having enough stored power to run the exhaust fan to dry the stored solid(my small battery would run dead from a few cloudy days). Overall I am very happy with the unit and having spent 30 days straight over the summer at the property it accommodated my family of 4 without a problem.
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GristMillLiving
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 05:06pm
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Separette is what we installed this past Spring. Why we chose it was 1) looked like a toilet, 2) composting done outside in our compost bin and not indoors, and 3) because of the second point, we use it year round without worry. We empty it every three weeks, less because of it being full as it never is, but more so the compost bag does not breakdown. We have it running to a deep cycle marine battery that lasts 3 -4 weeks before needing to be charged. No smell, very easy cleanup. Glad we went this route.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 05:50pm
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So, if I got this right, the C-Head 'houses' a 5gal bucket with a urine diverter (to another container or line-out) in a handsome plastic box with a t-seat, all for only $750ish!
What price 'style', I guess..... Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice.
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fiftyfifty
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 06:12pm - Edited by: fiftyfifty
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What are the rules in your area? This is something to consider too. In some counties, urine separating units are not allowed but the Sun-Mar brand meets code. They are very expensive. I have heard that some people will buy a Sun-Mar used to save money, install it in a shed, pass the inspection, but never actually use it because Sun-Mars have the reputation for working so poorly. So instead they just use the Humanure bucket method indoors, using a nice homemade surround, real toilet seat, and plenty of sawdust cover. As somebody once said "The law says you have to install a Sun-Mar, but the law doesn't say you have to use it."
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 06:31pm
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Sun-Mars do work. I know two people with them. The main problem is that when installed in a location that gets cold temperatures and the building is not heated (above 50 - 55 F), the composting action stops until the drum warms up again. The composting action does produce heat but there may not be a large enough mass to produce enough heat when the temperatures dip.
One of the ones I know of is in use all year in a warmer climate than where I am or WI. The people with it are content. The other is basically used as a legal alternative toilet and has the drum contents burned a couple of times a year in a pile of slash. There is always slash enough.
The biggest drawback to sawdust toilets is in some people's head... where their brain is located. (I could not resist making the pun with the head reference.) The to be composted material may need to be stored until warmer weather...
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Fanman
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 07:48pm
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We have a Biolet composting toilet, not sawdust, but a mixture of peat moss and pine wood chips. My wife is the only one who uses it, May through October. We usually have to empty the tray once during the summer, then we let it dry out over the winter and dump it in the spring.
I'm told the incinerators are really loud and stink. The composting toilet smells sometimes, usually when you let it get too wet.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 08:00pm
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Quoting: Fanman not sawdust, but a mixture of peat moss and pine wood chips.
Yes, the people I know use a mixture like that. Pine shavings from the sawmill planer.
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Steve961
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 09:38pm - Edited by: Steve961
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Quoting: gcrank1 So, if I got this right, the C-Head 'houses' a 5gal bucket with a urine diverter (to another container or line-out) in a handsome plastic box with a t-seat, all for only $750ish! What price 'style', I guess..... Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice.
No manufactured waterless toilet is going to be cheap - just look at the prices below. The cheapest one listed, the Loveable Loo, is literally a plywood box, a toilet seat, and a 5 gal bucket for $400. When I bought my C-Head it was $600, and I consider it money well spent since it has made my wife's visits more enjoyable. The C-head may be expensive, but the quality of construction, ease of cleaning/maintenance, appearance, and versatility make up for it.
Biolet = $1,470
Natures Head = $995
Separett = $989
Loveable Loo = $395
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 10:17pm
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Free
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 10:29pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Fwiw, we have a long thread already in the bin here:
Off-Grid Living/Compost Toilets
Btw, the basic 'luggable-loo' is $20 currently online or your fav big-box store; build yer own box IF you need one for the Better Cabins & Gardens photo-shoot . Hard to beat that price!
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Steve961
Member
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2021 11:17pm
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Quoting: gcrank1 Btw, the basic 'lovable-loo' is $20 currently online
Where are you finding them for $20. The official store link below shows them at $395.
Loveable Loo
I agree that building one yourself is MUCH cheaper, but I wouldn't want something like that built out of wood that would be difficult to clean and disinfect.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2021 05:58am
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Attachments:
Sawdust Toilet (Bucket System) with WeePee Urine diverter (there may be better ones for women). 3/4" PureBond Plywood, Finished with 4 coats of Polyurethane, very easy to cleanup and maintain.
Urinal: Made from a Forklift LPG Tank. Was a bugger to clean the outside, easy enough to cut the very thick aluminium. Exterior has 3 coats of Clear Eurathane.
Composting Structure, using 4x4PT posts and White Cedar Planks.
Sawdust Toilet with sawdust bin
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Urinal
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Composting Structure
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2021 07:48am
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Well, I know it's primitive, but I get by really cheap in my barn with the 5 gallon bucket and the matching toilet seat with dirt. It's not for everyone. I use the dirt I keep sweeping up from the floor of the barn. It is a fine powder-like granularity by the time it is swept up. Anyway, I keep it in a separate 5 gallon bucket next to the toilet bucket. I layer the bottom of the toilet bucket with dirt before beginning to use it. Then, after every use, I put another layer on. Remember, this is a cheap alternative not for everyone, but a temporary option. The downside, of course, is cleaning the buckets. After using a post hole auger on the tractor for the cabin footers, I realized it was the most convenient way to dig a hole to bury the bucket contents. Not everyone has one, but it's been a good thing for me.
Someone from the forum read about this and suggested using composting bags in the bucket. That is a good idea to reduce the cleaning issue.
They say the bags can be directly buried. I might
have to try this.
In the cabin, I get by with a plastic liner in the same type of bucket and throw clumping cat litter in it. Then I haul the bag home to dispose of it in the trash. I know that's not a great idea, but it's working for me.
Best of luck.
Tim, Ohio
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2021 08:23am
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Thanks for all the replies.
I'm still leaning towards the Separett at this point. I know it's pricey, i know there are cheaper alternatives to accomplish the same task, but as others have said, the piece of mind for those less than outdoorsy users is worth it.
I'll have power in the cabin so powering the fan won't be an issue.
I just found out that there's a $150 permit i need to get for either an outhouse or a compost toilet. So now i just need to go through the regulations shown below and see if the Separett meets all the call outs.
SPS 391.10 Composting toilet systems.
(1) The materials, design, construction and performance of a composting toilet system shall conform to NSF Standard 41.
(2) All composting toilet systems shall be listed by a testing agency acceptable to the department.
Note: Listing agencies acceptable to the department include the American Gas Association; Canadian Standards Association; NSF International; Underwriter's Laboratories; and Warnock Hersey.
(3) 
(a) Components for the storage or treatment of wastes shall be continuously ventilated.
(b) Ventilation ducts or vents for the composting toilet system shall conform to s. SPS 382.31 (16).
Note: See appendix for a reprint of portions of s. SPS 382.31 (16).
(4) 
(a) The disposal of the compost shall be in accordance with 40 CFR part 503.
(b) The disposal of any liquid from a composting toilet system shall be either to a public sanitary sewer system or a POWTS conforming to ch. SPS 383.
History: Cr. Register, April, 2000, No. 532, eff. 7-1-00; correction in (3) (b), (4) (b) made under s. 13.92 (4) (b) 7., Stats., Register December 2011 No. 672; CR 17-065: am. (4) (a) Register June 2018 No. 750, eff. 7-1-18.
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2021 08:58am
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Geez, get the government involved and relieving yourself becomes a "mess". Are you sure you don't have to fill out a form and have it notarized each time you go?
Chuckling here in Ohio.
Best of luck.
Tim
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2021 09:43am
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Right! I'm going to talk with the BI and see if she's going to make me be official or not.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2021 10:08am
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Steve961
Just google 'reliance luggable-loo' (note the spelling dif). Ive also seen them at Cabela's and Walmart.
Its the ready to use 'starter kit' @ $20ish
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2021 10:11am
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I bet she will.
And this $150 permit is also a contract that you sign with the county... a promise to follow the rules. It gets recorded with the register of deeds and attached to the property. I think you might have to spend another $30 for that.
Still, a bargain compared to a full well and septic. And I had to pay someone another $500 on top of that to come dig a hole and confirm on the permit that I wasn't putting my outhouse over groundwater.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2021 10:33am
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Some things can be done with a wink and a nod, other things, like wells and septic are too important and highly regulated for an inspector to just give a pass on. Those come down to their jobs and rep on the line.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2021 12:11pm
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The #1 bullet in my post above about the permit of requiring the system to be NSF 41 compliant basically forces me into a Sunmar system which i haven't heard anything good about on here or other sites. I'm going to call the county and see if there is any wiggle room with which system I go with.
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