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ourtinycabin
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# Posted: 19 Apr 2021 03:52pm
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Hello!
I'm building a 140sq ft off-grid cabin, and I'm looking forward to fall/winter heating. I'm up in Canada, but even though it gets cold, I don't think I'll be out there when it's -30ºC. Really, I just want it to keep it warm overnight in the fall and habitable on nicer winter days.
Since the cabin is so small, I don't want to take up much space with a wood stove, so I'm leaning towards a direct vent propane heater.
I've been looking at this Ashley Hearth 11,000 BTU unit. Thoughts on this unit? Thoughts on direct vent propane heaters in general?
Thanks for the help and feedback!
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ICC
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# Posted: 19 Apr 2021 06:17pm
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Direct vent heaters emit no products of combustion inside the living space. That is excellent and in some places required for a legal installation. Very good.
However that particular heater you linked to clearly states it is meant for use with natural gas. Your posted message references propane. Some gas burning appliances can be converted from natural gas to propane, and vice versa. But not all. That one does not list a conversion kit as far as I can tell from a quick look. Better look some more.
That heater does not mention anything about an AC powered blower, which is probably a good thing for off grid use, unless you lan on a solar powered system with enough battery storage. FYI, not all heaters that have a blower can be used without the blower being powered, so do watch that detail when looking at others.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 19 Apr 2021 06:50pm
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Proof of concept: Similar considerations for us, get heat going asap to get it comfortable, but not going there in bitter cold just to sit by the heater. This past winter was our first with the LP for the few times we were able to get in. I basically have decided the wood stove takes too long to get going and kicking heat (though in your tiny place it wouldnt take long, think Ice Shanty stove) but those clearances! Wow, the footprint gets bigger fast. And oxygen would get used fast in your place, even with a camp stove going. Pls do get a CO Alarm.
We really like the LP and ease of use but it may be hard to find a small btu direct vent.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 20 Apr 2021 07:21am
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Is your cabin going to be insulated well?
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 20 Apr 2021 07:37am
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140 square feet is not huge and should not be hard to heat. Of course that depends on insulation and whatnot obviously.
I have an unusual suggestion which could apply. I used a recovered LPG Furnace out of a 4 year old wrecked RV. It's a Direct Vent, Electronic Ignition, only needs 12VDC to run so a single 12V battery with 1 solar panel & charge controller (think of those 100W Coleman units at Canadian Poofda (Canadian Tire) when on sale. If going that route, you could get away with a RV/Marine Deep Cycle AGM battery (BTW the ones CTC sells NOW are Craptastic - don't waste your cash & time, they no longer contract Exide for the batteries, they are cheap offshore imports now).
I use that as a heating system for my Powerhouse and it is a good, simple, "cheap" solution. The Furnace is a "Suburban NT20S" which came out of a 20' RV Trailer. The whole thing cost me $350 CAD with all the attachments, digital thermostat & dual tank regulator setup.
Just call around to the local RV Sales & Service places and ask about any wrecked RV Trailers that are <5 years old and you should luck in quite easily. You might even consider grabbing the fridge out of one as well that could run on 12V & LPG.
Hope it helps, Good Luck
Steve
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KelVarnsen
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# Posted: 20 Apr 2021 05:25pm - Edited by: KelVarnsen
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Martin has some nice heaters. I bought one a few years ago. I’m impressed with the construction but can’t speak to the performance. My cabin renovations have needed to be done in a sequence so I haven’t installed it. I jumped the gun in buying it. I’m hoping to get it in this summer.
https://martinproducts.store/shop/ols/categories/direct-vent-heatersURL
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 20 Apr 2021 06:00pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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That 8K btu model would be plenty for your place and a wall mounted thin unit wont take up much space. You do still have to have some clearances to combustibles, sides and bottom not so much, up and out more.
Btw, often they dont have to run all the time once you cook the chill out, having a t-stat will make that an easy thing and be frugal on lp.
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paulz
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# Posted: 20 Apr 2021 08:22pm
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Love my direct vent heater (Williams). Re a fan: mine came with a spot for an AC fan. I mounted a USB powered desktop fan in that location. Moves the air and doesn't use much power.
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SE Ohio
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2021 08:27am
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Our tiny cabin,
Please search forum for more info as this has been a frequent discussion topic
SE Ohio
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ketchgould
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2021 10:12am
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I have used a Mr. Buddy on a livaboard sailboat for about ten years. They are rated for indoor spaces but create condensation in the heated space.
Recently there has been Chinese imports ($150) of European diesel heaters ($2000). These heaters would heat your space and they are vented to the outside. They also have a thermostat and can be controlled via remote. They also have an integrated fan and run on 12 volts. They seem very useful. They are also portable. I am going to install one this season.
I think the diesel heater would work great for you.
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ICC
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2021 11:17am
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The diesel heaters have some great features like the fact that they are direct vent. There are separate intake and exhaust tubes or vents. They have a heat exchanger that keeps the interior air completely separate. They are small.
They are noisy, especially on a high burn. They also use power all the time as they need to run a fan all the time. When it is started from cold there is a higher amp draw to heat the glow plug. The exhaust may also be smoky white like a cold diesel engine starting. Smelly. There are strict limitations to how they can be oriented for mounting. That can sometimes be awkward.
A potential user should be aware that the these diesel heaters do have a thermostat control that varies the BTU output from high down to low. But the control does not ever turn the combustion process off. The heater must go through a shutdown process to ensure no unburned fuel is left inside the combustion chamber. The way the heaters come there is no way to automate the shutdown or restarting the burn as you might expect. There is a guy in Land of Oz who has developed a controller than does many things and I believe an automated start up shut down process is included. But one should verify that. Sorry, but I forget the name.
These are all copies of the Webasto and Espar or Eberspacher heaters from Europe. Espar and Eberspacher are the same unit. They are called Espar in the US as the German manufacturer figured the Americans could not wrap their tongue around Eberspacher.) The chinese heaters are advertised in several different sizes. They are sized in KW. There are actually only two real sizes. Small which is about 2 KW max and larger which is about 4 KW. To get the higher ratings 5KW, 8KW and even more, the chinese sellers sometimes use pumps that force more fuel to the combustion chamber. That may produce more heat but can also cause more carbonizing. Some of the sellers are simply lying, not an unheard of occurrence with many different imported and cheap goods.
There is also a Russian made diesel air heater sold under the Autoterm and Planar name. They are priced about midway between the Webasto and Espar/Eberspacher at the high end and all the off-brand cheap Chinese copies. The Planar are much better made than the chinese copies. Parts do not interchange between the 3 categories.
All that said we have a Webasto in a truck box that must stay warm at times and that saves running the diesel engine. My brother recently installed a Planar in another machine. The Webasto has worked well for over 6 years with some periodic servicing. We'll see about the Planar, but I believe they are superior to the cheap chinese heaters. We had a long hard look at the chinese ones. Many people seem to be very happy with them while there are many others that have long lists of problems they have had. FB has several groups dedicated to chinese heaters and problems. From what I saw it seems that many problems may be self inflicted, but not all.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2021 03:05pm
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Quoting: ICC There is a guy in Land of Oz who has developed a controller than does many things..... Sorry, but I forget the name.
It's called the Afterburner, and yes it will start and stop the Chinese (I don't think it will work on the European heaters) heater. It will make the heater work as any other on a thermostat. Plus more bells and whistles. Down side is it costs as much as a diesel heater, last I looked $125.00 for the basic model.
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ICC
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2021 03:28pm
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Yep, that is it. And no it will not work with the EU or Russian ones. I had checked into that. The Afterburner works with most of the chinese ones as I recall, but not all. It depends on what electronics were used in the chinese heater.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 21 Apr 2021 04:10pm
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Warning for some....
I cant take diesel fumes, might have got too much diesel when I worked heavy equipment. For anybody who has 'issues' sitting behind a diesel powered vehicle in traffic you may not want a diesel fueled heater.
Our home had a fuel oil furnace when we moved here, as did my folk's place where I grew up, both typical real vented furnaces. They had odor. I was Ok with it until I wasnt, then it was nasty (health issues; diesel has a lot of junk in it).
On a similar note (or odor, as the case is) those kero fueled heaters are not tolerated well by some either though they are not direct vented. Kero is similar to diesel, just more 'refined'.
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Fanman
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# Posted: 22 Apr 2021 09:02pm
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How 'bout a Mini Franklin stove?
We have a wood stove and a coal stove at the cabin, but our house is heated by two 7500BTU direct vent heaters ("Housewarmer" brand, appear to be made by Empire) in the back bedrooms and one 30,000 BTU Osburn gas fireplace for the rest of the house. All DV propane, no blowers, no electric needed.
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