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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2021 06:17am
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Yes take along your old batteries for a core. I believe gc2 are $22 each core. Il get you his number if he comes through with them. Highland near poughkeepsie.
Duracell GC2 is what I have and there def the best price out there. I would buy them over these but I lost my Sam club membership and it dosnt show stock any more. Also $45 for a membership over saving $35 for batteries.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 8 Apr 2021 11:06am
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Brettny/Scott100
Thanks and i seem to have managed to source some batteries
So i need to try to do some diagnostics on the system though as clearly something went wrong..............i dont want to put 8 new batteries back in place without knowing where the issue was or I am only creating a problem down the line again!
Some good info from gcrank1 early in this thread which i will try to follow once back at the camp - likely around 4/23
Thanks for all the help to everyone on here with this issue
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2021 01:55pm
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Just a quick update on this issue
Just found this information, which has a further parasitic drain on the batteries
I have an Aims Power Battery Charger, fed from the generator to the batteries
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07N1K43NQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF 8&psc=1
Looks as though when this is "toggled on" and NOT charging at the time, this would draw around
Quote from a user;
"The main negative I see is that it draws a small but significant parasitic DC current, if left connected to a battery bank with no AC power source - this is worse if you leave its toggle switch on, a full 5.0W (0.2A @ 26V) on a 24V bank, but even with the switch off it pulls a constant 0.11-0.13A depending on DC battery voltage (3.2W at ~24V)"
I presume unplugging this each day should resolve that issue?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2021 02:22pm
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Quoting: zorro I presume unplugging this each day should resolve that issue?
Install a proper DC rated breaker that is also suitable for use as a disconnect, such as the ones sold by Midnite Solar, or a marine battery disconnect switch. Then every time you leave you open the circuit.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2021 02:52pm - Edited by: zorro
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I honestly dont know much about electrics unfortunately
So if unplugging will not stop the drain, will this
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07Z3BH3DN?pf_rd_r=MAZ7T3R6HM924N1QD1CA&pf_rd_p=5ae 2c7f8-e0c6-4f35-9071-dc3240e894a8&pd_rd_r=65ef2e71-9579-4b85-8f84-c97aa918e7a4&pd_rd_ w=RpZBR&pd_rd_wg=Ji7sa&ref_=pd_gw_unk
And if so, is it literally the "-" negative from the charger to the battery bank goes in one side and out the other!
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2021 03:27pm
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If you dont need the fuse aspect that disconnect in your link is fine.
I have an RV iota charger and should check it for a drain. Mine is hooked to alligator clips. Thanks for updating us.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2021 07:38pm
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zorro, when you say unplug what exactly do you mean to unplug?
The 100% certain way to prevent hidden drain is to disconnect the power INTO the inverter from the batteries. Yes, using a disconnect as pictured will stop all hidden drains in the inverter.
You should have an appropriately sized fuse or breaker in the battery supply to the inverter. That is why I always suggest a good DC breaker that can be used as a disconnect. BTW, if a fuse is used it should not be pulled to break the circuit unless the inverter is shut right down. The possible danger is that if a DC fuse is removed while there is current draw there may be an arc flash. Big draw = big flash, possible burns.
As far as I can tell Iota chargers do not have a back feed drain problem.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2021 10:39pm - Edited by: zorro
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I have a Samlex 1500W inverter but that does NOT have a charger built in
So I also have a stand alone AIMS charger, which is literally plugged into a generator outlet and then wired to the battery bank
So when the generator comes on, it charges the batteries
So when i say unplug, i actually mean "unplug the charger" as it is plugged directly into an outlet
So i would have thought that i could simply unplug the charger from the outlet to stop any parasitic drain when i leave the cabin each time?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2021 12:03am
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Thank you for clarifying what is to be unplugged.
Quoting: zorro So when i say unplug, i actually mean "unplug the charger" as it is plugged directly into an outlet So i would have thought that i could simply unplug the charger from the outlet to stop any parasitic drain when i leave the cabin each time?
Quoting: zorro "The main negative I see is that it draws a small but significant parasitic DC current, if left connected to a battery bank with no AC power source - this is worse if you leave its toggle switch on, a full 5.0W (0.2A @ 26V) on a 24V bank, but even with the switch off it pulls a constant 0.11-0.13A depending on DC battery voltage (3.2W at ~24V)" I presume unplugging this each day should resolve that issue?
Maybe I am confused?
You are proposing unplugging the charger from an outlet to solve the problem. I interpret that to mean unplugging the cord that is plugged into an AC outlet. Right/wrong?
Then the quote you posted is speaking about there being a parasitic DC drain if left connected to batteries and not plugged into the AC mains. Right/wrong?
See why I am confused? The other guy says he found the charger draws current from the batteries when not actually connected to incoming AC. Meanwhile, you believe that unplugging from the AC outlet, which has no power because the generator is not running, will solve the parasitic drain problem.
If that charger draws DC power out of the batteries then you need to disconnect at least one wire that connects battery to charger. That disconnect you liked to would do that.
However, your inverter will still draw DC power from the battery if it is not properly turned off, hence my constant referral to and love of using a disconnect between it and the battery.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2021 06:00am
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If you disconnect all DC components becids the CC it gets rid of any other possibilities of drains becids the CC. It just depends on how your system is wired and where you put the DC disconnect.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2021 12:13pm
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Ha ha............i told you i was not good with electrics!!
So, from what i can tell, there are 2 items with a parasitic draw
1 - The Inverter, when i switch it off from the remote/wall unit
2 - The charger
So i had confirmation that the inverter does not have a draw if switched off on the inverter itself using the on/off button........so think that solves the issue
The charger lugs directly into an outlet and is powered by the generator and charges the batteries
So i assumed.......and maybe wrongly  , that if i unplugged the charger from the outlet entirely, it would not have any draw on the batteries as it is no longer plugged into any outlet or powered by anything
But everything is wired through each other as "normal" apart from the charger which is a separate unit and plugged direct to the outlet with cables feeding back to the batteries for charging
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2021 12:59pm
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So, is the charger just clamped to the bat posts or hardwired?
If clamped just drop one clamp when you unplug it to leave. It may have internals drawing some to keep the brain going even though it isnt plugged in and charging.
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2021 02:20pm
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Yep - charger is simply attached via battery ring terminals
So i will simply take that off each time i leave for the winter, if i dont put in one of the marine cut offs..........which are probably easy to fit and easy to "disconnect" when leaving
Thanks again guys
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2021 02:26pm - Edited by: ICC
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That AIMS charger comes from the factory with a cord fitted to plug into 120 VAC house power. There are no DC output cables attached to the charger the way it comes.
The picture of the charger (above someplace) has the charger mounted to a wall and the DC output cables nicely wire-tied in place. That makes me believe the ends that connect to the battery bank are hard wired, fixed with terminal bolts and nuts. Not an easy thing to disconnect without tools. If one elects to disconnect a DC wire at either the battery end or the charger end every time the system is to be left un-used, sooner or later there is a good chance of some sort accidental shorting with who knows what damages occuring. Especially for someone not well versed in electricity I think that is a disaster waiting to happen.
From what one person stated in the Amazon product review, that charger has a relay that is activated when the charger is connected to batteries. The exact purpose is not known for sure and why it is there does not matter to us. That reviewer stated they heard an audible click as soon as batteries were connected. They also supplied current readings so it seems like they had a meter of some kind and knew what they were doing. Let's assume the reviewer possess electrical knowledge. They stated there was a draw on the batteries when charger and batteries were connected together. They also stated this current amount varied with how the switch on the charger was set. BUT this current draw from the batteries existed even when the charger was not plugged into any AC power.
Therefore it will not help at all to unplug the 120 VAC plug from the outlet that the charger is usually plugged into.
I cannot put it any clearer. The system needs a disconnect in at least one of the DC wires that connect charger to batteries.
There should also be a fuse or breaker of an appropriate rating, as close as possible to the batteries + terminal to protect against a short circuit. If there is no fuse or breaker then the cables themselves become the fuse. Heavy cables may cause a fire before the cable burns off. Batteries have a lot of stored energy. It is possible to weld steel with just a couple of batteries wired in series. There are 8 batteries in this system. What a welder!
The people who designed this system should have known enough about the products they were selling to know this could be a problem in an off grid system. As well, IMO, AIMS blew the design. They designed the charger to be hard-wired, to be permanently connected to a battery and should have seen the design flaw.
My criticism is based upon the reviewer on Amazon so I could be wrong, but without having a hands-on experience of my own I believe my critique is valid.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2021 04:37pm
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ICC, imo your thoughts and observations are always worth considering 
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zorro
Member
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2021 10:59am
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ICC - thanks again for the detailed info - really helpful
Based on everything you have told me, i really do need to fit that Marine breaker linked above from Amazon
I will order it and have it for my next trip to the cabin
Thanks again
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