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El Wood
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2011 12:14
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Our property is located near Bracebridge. There is no hydro. We checked the water level on our drilled well couple of weeks ago and it was at 22'-6". I have no idea how much that fluctuates throughout the year or how fast the water fills back in. We were told the well was drilled down to about 150' deep. The well is 6" wide. From what I've see online, we need to go down minimum 10' below the water level that means we need to pump up about 33'.
Here's what we're trying to achieve:
- we hope to get a trailer on the land and would like to fill the holding tank from the well
- eventually we will be planting some fruit trees and would like to attach a hose to the pump to water the trees (even if we set up some sort of rain barrel system, we'll probably still have to supplement some additional water)
- option of adding a powered pump in the future and still keep the hand pump as backup
- can't really go the solar power route as the well is in a shaded area and we are not allowed to build any structure to house the batteries etc.
- prefer not to use a generator but will consider it if there is no other option
The only companies that have gotten back to us suggested solar power or generator. They've all tried to dissuade us from hand pump saying that we'll waste 20 minutes just priming every time we want to use it and because our well is only 6" wide, there is not enough space to add any powered pump in the future. Plus since we don't know how the water level fluctuates, we should just spend extra money on pump for 100' deep. How legit are all these advise? It all seems much more complicated than what's offered on Bison, Simple Pump or Survival Unlimited websites. Am I missing something here?
We've looked at Ritoul in Tobermory but their pump is too big and requires separate support, instead of just a special cap on the well.
The only suppliers I've located that seem to fit our needs are all located in US. Are there no such suppliers in Ontario? Can anyone recommend maybe a local company that could help us?
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caveman
Member
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2011 12:39
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pumpsandtanks.com should have what you need
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2011 12:56 - Edited by: MtnDon
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It's hard to recommend the "best" thing without knowing some more about the well; like the flow rate. For example, I have a friend with a 585 ft deep well, only a 4 inch casing. Normally the water sits at the 300 foot level and the pump is at 500 feet. That's only something like 130 US gallons standing in the pipe. It refills very slowly; I forget the rate but it takes hours for that 130 gallons to refill. He uses a solar powered pump to fill a storage tank and a pressure pump from there to supply the cabin needs. I have another friend in the same area who can pump 5 gallons a minute all day and not run dry.
A well driller will test for the rate by pumping the drill hole dry and timing how long it takes to refill. If your flow rate is high enough the pump itself doesn't have to reach as deep. See if you can get someone to do that for reasonable cost. There are no records on flow etc? Here in NM all that info (depth, flow rate, casing depth, etc is public record info.
It does take a while, a lot of pumping, to raise the water by hand pumping from a depth. Can be done but it can be tedious and arm tiring.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2011 14:49
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a simple hand pump system from home hardware or t. s. c. should pump all the water you need.If you use a foot velve it soulden't loose it's prime . you will need top to bottom
hand pump 60$
4ft 1 1\4 in pipe 10$
sanitary well seal 6in to 1 1\4 40 $
fittings to attach 1 in hose to 1 1\4 in pipe 5$
30 ft 1 in hose fittings to attach 1in foot velve 5$
1 in. foot velve brass 20 $
4 clamps + teflon tape
a post or a wooden box to support the pump above the well home hardware in Braracebridge should be able to get all
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El Wood
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2011 16:50
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Hi Just,
The pump I've seen on Home Hardware (not pitcher type) says it's only meant for 6 meters (19.6 ft). With static water level at 22.5', don't I need something that can draw up 30' to 40'?
Does anyone else have a shallow well pump that's drawing from 30-40ft below? Does it actually work? Is the effort required to draw up the water reasonable?
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2011 17:10
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Bushbunky has a thread on this sight, he has a well over in the Bruce, try going to his thread!! if you don't think that pitcher pump will work you can go to a deep well hand pump with the pump at the bottum of the hole and attatched to the pump with a jerk rod ..
you would need to get that stuff from a well supply ferm. I will get you a name tomorrow from some one I know in bracebridge..I still think the small pump will work !! later
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2011 19:11
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A shallow well pump (piston and cylinder up top) can draw a max of about 20=22 feet or so. It also looses something for every 1000 feet above sea level. I forget how much lift is lost per elevation gain. The reason is air pressure. Lifting the piston in the cylinder creates a vacuum; air pressure pushed the water up the pipe to fill that vacuum. Air pressure can only do so much and when air pressure is less due to altitude, the shallow well pump won't lift as far.
A deep well pump will have the cylinder and piston down the well under the static level. A small hole is drilled in the standpipe near below the water level. This hole permits the water level to drop down to where it should not freeze but is small enough to not interfere with the pump operation.
If a foot valve is used that does prevent the back flow and loss of prime, however that becomes a problem in freezing weather.
For use in freezing weather the water must be able to flow back down the standpipe far enough to prevent freezing in the standpipe. It can be a long wait till spring thaw... been there done that.
I use an Oasis shallow pump from the cistern. They have a deep well version. Deep well cost much more.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2011 20:43
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all of what don says is true you must be able to release the water in the stand pipe in the winter but if you don;t intend on using it in the winter then your ok , just pull the plastic pipe out till spring. Thats what bushbunky dose.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 28 Apr 2011 21:16
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Call Al hammer water wells in Barrie 705 721 6648
ask him for a used deep well win mill cylinder he may have all you need if not he will know were to get one or give you the name of someone to call in Berrie!!best i can do .
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bushbunkie
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2011 07:27
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Hi Elwood,
we're up on the Bruce, as Just stated eariler.
We use a hand pump (TSE STORE 100.) with a foot valve to keep the prime up.
The well is 120 ft deep...the water is pretty well immediate once we pump a few times.
Our line runs down the well 22'...which I think is close to the limit for a hand pump...my wife easily primes and pumps the water.
In winter we simply unscrew the hand pump, roll up the plastic pipe and store in the outhouse.
Be careful re. the trailer...in Ontario it's against bylaw...as you probably know...hopefully noone can see it from the road?
Good luck with it...water on your property makes all the difference!
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El Wood
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2011 09:01
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Hi Just,
Thank you for the contact!!
Hi Bushbunkie,
When you say 22', is that your water level? Or is your water level much higher and the pipes go down to 22'? As MtnDon mentioned, we'll try to contact the well drilling company and see if they still have any info on the well. We don't even know when it was drilled, sigh.
As for the trailer, we talked to Planning and as long as it's used less than 60 nights per year, it's the only thing that is okay on the land (without an expensive development fee). :)
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2011 10:20
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My friend the well driller says to buy, and try, the pitcher pump if it dosen't work you will still need the pump for the deep well cylinder pump.Apparently you use the same pump, you just take the seals out of the pump and attach the jurk rod to the handle . I will not be coming up that way till summer or I could bring you a deep well pump cylinder , my friend has several here for 20$ each ,
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JH Fish
Member
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# Posted: 29 Apr 2011 23:28 - Edited by: JH Fish
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I got this for our camp in Ontario north of Toronto. We have a dug well and don't have to go deep for water. No foot valve. Just take the handle up to the top position and the valve is opened and the water is released. No freezing, no pump or standpipe removal and prime in the spring. But the bottom of our well is 25 feet. Water gets up to 5 feet below grade, depending on season and rainfall.
http://www.lehmans.com/store/Water___Water_Pumps___Shallow_Wells___Our_Good_Cistern_h and_Water_Pump___21P?Args=
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El Wood
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# Posted: 9 May 2011 13:26
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Someone has gotten back to us with a possible solution. He recommended a piston pump with an exercise bike to run it, sort of like Gillian's Island style. Unfortunately he doesn't have any photos from previous projects for us to review. Has anyone seen this set up before, or better yet, has anyone tried this set up before? One major concern is how big this set up would be, as we have very limited storage space.
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 9 May 2011 20:06
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A piston pump will not suck any deeper than a hand pump 23- 25 ft.
seen it done lots . or u can attach a car stearing wheel spinner to the pully and crank your heart out , I used to have that for black outs befor i got a jet pump. new piston pump 800$ used 400$
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Jay
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# Posted: 18 May 2011 13:22
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My cottage has a drilled well powered by electricity. I am planning to install a hand pump in case the power is down. Below vendor say theri hand pump is for deep well. It can pump water directly into presure tank. This is only one I found in US with this funtion. I showed this to my plumber and he never heard about this product. He will try to see how it can be installed.
http://www.simplepump.com/
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RnR
Member
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# Posted: 20 May 2011 13:05
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The only resource that was mentioned in my book "cottage water systems" was the Bison, their link is http://www.bisonpumps.com/hand-pumps.htm and it seems similar to the simple pump from Jay.
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El Wood
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2011 15:37
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We decided to wait a year for the pump. Already spent more than we intended this year, what with purchase of the land and used trailer. If we wait, we may even have enough saved to splurge and go the Simple Pump route - then we won't have to worry about fluctuation of water level, or whether we only end up with bubbles instead of water due the laws of physics! Thanks everyone for their input!
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 3 Jul 2011 23:38
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you can pump water up from any dept,the same way the old style working head operates.the deeper the static level is the more power you need (if your using arm strength) but for the static water lelel you mentiond that would not take no power at all.with this system all the workings are at the bottom of the pipes and your not relying on the 25 foot suction rule.these systems you still can purcase or you can have one made,can't see it costing that much.If the well is highter then the cotage then you may want to go with the water hammer style system.you can call me at 705 627 4556
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tebrandon
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2014 16:03
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We have a blasted / dug well......22 feet deep - approx 3500 gal of standing water in aguifer around and in well - will be using submersible but also have a Beety Bros antique hand pump in operating condition for emergencies and/or rustic beauty. The pump is a lift pump having the pump cylinder below water. You don't have to manually prime the pump and it will not freeze in winter - bought on Kijij for $80 incuding all pipes and cylinder - a cheap fix for your well problems.
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