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VAmtns
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2020 07:56pm
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Hello everybody!
I have been visiting this site for years, but this is my first time posting. Tons of great info and ideas on here, thank you very much! We have some property in central Virginia and have built a small off-grid cabin for weekends.
For over ten years, we've been powering it with a Honda EU2000i generator directly with an extension cord wired in. I'm currently in the process of building a generator shed and plan to use a small breaker panel to connect and hard wire the cabin into breakers. I'm planning to use a standard RV-style outlet to connect the generator to the panel, so that I can plug in when needed. Going to use an 8' ground rod to ground the panel. I'm pretty clear on most of the wiring, but my question is mainly on bonding the ground to neutral.
I've read previous posts on here that address different variations of this topic, but I'm not sure that any answer my specific question. The EU2000i manual states that the generator system ground is not connected to the AC Neutral, so I would assume that bonding the ground to neutral in the panel would be the right way to go, because it would be the only bond in the system and would be at the panel (per code).
I've read other forum discussions that state the neutral on the EU2000i is not a 'true' neutral, but is similar to a 220V system, where each leg is technically 'hot' and supplies 60V to get the 120V output. Does anybody know if that is true?
I guess my main question is, does anybody run their cabin off of an EU2000i generator to a bonded (ground to neutral connected) panel? Any adverse effects and is this the correct (safe) way to do it? I'd just like proof that it works with no ill-effects before I hook it up that way.
Thank you for reading and for the help!
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2020 08:55pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: VAmtns I've read other forum discussions that state the neutral on the EU2000i is not a 'true' neutral, but is similar to a 220V system, where each leg is technically 'hot' and supplies 60V to get the 120V output. Does anybody know if that is true?
Yes, its true, each leg is 60VAC, you do not have a neutral on the generator, your ground is tied into the ground screw on the panel of your generator, that is it, so if you bond that generator panel to the ground rod, your ground will be powered up via that 60V from one leg of duplex outlet.
I would not bond the neutral to ground at the panel, or anywhere, save the bonding screw/lug at the panel if you do ever hook up to grid and that is your primary panel.
If you bond neutral to ground, you will be powering up the ground lug on your generator and ground rod.
They make a better version for this for safety reasons, its the EB2000i or the newer version EB2200i, it does have a neutral at the stator, but its not tapped or utilized, so it still shouldnt be bonded at panel. But the one side of the duplex plug is bonded to the engine ground and the ground at the duplex plug is tied into the ground screw at the panel where you hook your ground rod too. I do not know if they are both bonded to each other, wiring diagram doesn't show it bonded. It doesnt appear so based on the wiring diagram.
The duplex outlet is a GFCI, so you should be safe, even if you make a boo boo.
This is one of those generators that are required on a job site to meet OSHA specs.
Oh, the EB models have a CO detector, if its too much at generator, it will shut it off too. Might not work in a remote enclosure
I run my Honda EU2000i to my cabin, my neutral and ground IS NOT bonded. The entire generator is plastic/insulated. Pretty safe.
Hook your generator to a ground rod from the ground lug. Use the ground leg in the cord, hook it up to the ground in the panel, separate from the neutral wires. I'd say you are golden. The EB2200i is the way to eliminate any risk of a shock.
Here is your wiring diagram (at end of the manual)
https://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/manuals/00X31Z076200.pdf
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VAmtns
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2020 09:28pm
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Thank you for the great information! That is really helpful and good to know. I would have never thought the generator was built that way, but I'm happy to find out before wiring it up. I will ground, but not bond to the neutral. Appreciate you taking the time to explain all of that.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2020 09:35pm
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This response wont answer your question regarding grounding but may bring up some other considerations. Does your gen have the RV 30amp plug?
That would allow you to easily use an RV ext. cord to the RV plug at the powerhouse but the gen itself cannot support the 30amps, thus the 30amp cord is overkill though the 10ga(?) wires will not have line loss to speak of over sensible distance.
If the gen is 1600w continuous/2000w peak it can handle 13.3/16.6amps (but the duplex receptacles are 15amp?) and it wont support more even with the RV plug. And that 15amp max is for both, not each receptacle.
Then your service box, will it be a basic box with one power leg or two, the two leg type splits a 220vac input into two 110vac legs. You will only have a single 110/120vac input with a 15amp gen breaker (iirc). Regardless the box you are still limited on what the gen outputs, not the 'capacity' of the box.
So, imo, with that gen you are limited to the specs max load and that pretty much means one duplex receptacle in the cabin to match the gen panel.
My Champion 2000 inv/gen is somewhat a clone of the Honda. It is a great little unit, though I wish they would have been honest and called it a 1600/2000peak. It would be even better as a 2000/2400peak but it still wouldnt be capable of supporting two 20amp receptacles, that would take a 2400w + continuous unit.
Ive been doing much like you, ext. cord to cabin. My basic elec is the inverter supplied 110vac from the powerhouse solar for LED lights and 'small stuff' and when I need more power I manually switch the plug outside from the inverter to the gen; foolproof that.
When my gen is hooked up the gen circuit breakers cover the overload/safety issue, no need for more.
I considered a two fuse/cb box; ie, 2 circuits, but as I said, this size gen cant power all receptacles in use though it would be convenient to 'plug stuff into'. I solved that by using a power strip inside and selective appliance use. So, gen to ext. cord to RV cabin plug and inside cabin power strip to back side of RV plugin.
My ground is 'back through' whatever the gen is (which is probably nothing). Once I figure out the final location of my gen I will look at a ground rod hook up for it.
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VAmtns
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2020 09:46pm
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Gcrank1, thank you for the response also! Yeah, I actually have two of the EU2000i's and one's a companion, so it works out great for larger or smaller loads, depending on time of year and what we have going on. The companion has the 30Amp plug, so ultimately that is my goal, to be able to plug one or both in based on load. I'm going to use 10ga to the RV plug directly wired to the panel. I'm thinking I'll probably jump the buss bars in the panel together with some 2 AWG wire that I have to make both hot. I only plan to use 110V at this point, but could remove the jumper if we were to ever tie into the grid. Thanks again for taking the time to respond, it's great to hear what other people are doing.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2020 09:56pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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As gcrank mentioned, the panel legs will need to be bridged to power both sides. It will do 16.3 amps surge, 13.2 continuous. I run my entire tiny cabin on it, no issues, lights, TV, microwave (big load) and with gennie outside under very light load, you dont even know its running. Feels like you are on the grid. My lights are LED bulbs.
I would run a circuit breaker to an inlet (opposite of an outlet) outside to safely plug in your generator and then tie it in to a properly sized breaker ie 15A then jump the input lugs at the top of the panel with a jumper wire, use a 10AWG wire. You gennie has an overload protection also.
EDIT, OK, with companion, size the wire to cabin inlet generator feed circuit using 10AWG and 30A single pole breaker so it can handle the parallel units capability.
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VAmtns
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2020 10:02pm
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We've done the same for years with the extension cord from the cabin plugged in to the generator. Have a microwave too, just have to take it off the 'eco' setting before we fire it up, but works great! Same thing, feels like we're on the grid most times. Love the LED lights available now, you can keep the draw way down for just lighting or a TV. We even run air conditioning in the summer on the really hot nights. That little Honda can run an A/C for 6-8 hours most times on a gallon of gas.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2020 10:31pm
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The microwave we are using is a 700w unit from Walmart some years back, though I have seen them more recently. I have the gen set on eco and the mw loads it, the rpms come up right away and the mw takes off fine, never a trip. From that I expect a bigger watts draw mw would need to not be on eco. Our toaster works great too (like my toast) just not at the same time as the mw.
Smart use sure is the key. Pretty much I run the cabin like I did our RV's and I think Im a lifetime subscriber to the KISS Principle.
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