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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2020 05:59am - Edited by: rachelsdad
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I've pretty much discarded the idea of a 12 volt water pump when I revamp my water system in the spring.
My current system works ok, pump pulls water from lake via generator, (remote start), fills 60 gallon pressure tank and 50 gallon hot water heater but when pressure tank runs low there goes water.
So I'm going to install a 250 gallon tank, again, filled by lake w/generator, but at least I'll have a bit more capacity. I'd like a Shure Flo or Flo jet type pump to replace pressure tank.
Any suggestions for a suitable pump for 110? Obviously would like it to be efficient.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2020 06:58am
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How much head from the lake to the point of use? Is there much point in having a dual pump system if you need to run the generator any way?
A pressure tank smooths out pump cycles and allows the pump to run less. Not needed if your filling a cistern but can be a benefit if your running on batteries.
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scott100
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2020 10:18am
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We got one of these for our cabin. We run it off 3 x 275 gal ibc totes we have filled periodically:
https://www.amazon.com/SEAFLO-110V-Water-Diaphragm-Pressure/dp/B075V9RBYR
It works fine for us, but we're used to the quirks of these seaflo pumps from having them on boats. It is efficient and this 120 v version was best for our application as I invert the 24v solar power away from the cabin and run 120 v to.the cabin. I did install the little pressure tank made for these pumps. Believe it evens out the flow as our Ecotemp L10 water heater is really sensitive to drops in flow. Did have to spend a bit of time tweaking the water heater settings to get it to work. Pump is a bit noisey so moved it to a stand alone mount rather than mounting it directly on cabin.
So the bottom line is that this pump isn't as satisfying as a submersible well pump with regards to pressure and flow, but considering we're off grid, are pretty happy with it.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2020 03:39pm
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How much head from the lake to the point of use? Is there much point in having a dual pump system if you need to run the generator any way?
A pressure tank smooths out pump cycles and allows the pump to run less. Not needed if your filling a cistern but can be a benefit if your running on batteries.
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rachelsdad
Member
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2020 04:23pm - Edited by: rachelsdad
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Brettny,
I'm hoping to only run the big pump to get water to the tank and then "live" off it for a day vs 3-4 times if there are more than 2 people there.
But you bring up a good point, I've never measured head. I have a 50-60' long hose running into the lake w/a foot valve, goes about 8' deep...I don't know, perhaps 20-25'? My current pump would kill the bank I'm sure but I don't know if a small pump like that could pull from the lake.
We got one of these for our cabin. We run it off 3 x 275 gal ibc totes we have filled periodically:
Scott, that is exactly what I'm looking to do with the big pump from lake
So, pump up 250 gallons in early afternoon when the jet skis are running around and use smaller pressure pump, (for lack of better term) during day.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2020 06:51pm
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Your planing on running the small pump on 120v too? I'm not sure I see the point in even having a tank if you have a lake right there.
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2020 05:32am - Edited by: rachelsdad
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Just to clarify, I'm not tied to the grid, I have 4 x 1 kwh 24 volt Chevy Volt batteries. I'm assuming what I have would not handle the pump I use to draw from lake.
If the small pump can do the trick I'm all in on that idea.
This pump is similar to what I use to pull from the lake to fill the big pressure tank. Got it at the local TV Hardware store in town. Basically brainstormed with the owner as to how best to draw from lake, (everyone else has electricity but me).
https://www.truevalue.com/catalog/product/view/id/23418/s/shallow-well-jet-pump-5-hp- motor-2/category/6832/
I'm more than happy to scrap the whole system if there is an efficient pump that can draw from lake, eliminating the need for a tank, to draw on demand off of my battery bank and not consume gobs of power.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2020 09:10am
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HD has a similar 1/2hp jet pump for $93.
I would figure out your head, figure out how much GPM you want at the faucet then add a bit. Every pump should have a graph chart with a head vs GPM flow rate.
With 25ft of head pressure you will need to have the pump near the lake but should be doable with a single pump off your batteries.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2020 09:17am
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https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A67DOPO/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVh bGlmaWVyPUEzMkFOTk41WFZFWTdEJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDAzNjc3MUdTODhMVDFTVVJCTiZlbmNyeXB0Z WRBZElkPUEwMzQ5MjU4MUFGNU1ZSENCMjFWTyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbDImYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUm VkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2020 04:52am
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Ok, so that pump you referenced draws 1200 watts per the specs....unless I'm reading wrong.
I guess I need to figure out how often it would run and if my bank couls support it.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2020 05:51am
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A bigger pressure tank would mean the pump runs less. But if you see issues you could always add a charger to your system. See a cloudy day coming, charge the batteries in the morning and let the solar take them the rest of the way to fully charged.
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scott100
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2020 11:13am - Edited by: scott100
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You may have enough battery to run it but do you have enough inverter to start it and enough solar to keep up with it? Check the specs on your pump, but I'm guessing run current is around 12 A so run power is around 1400 watts at 120V. Startup current and power will be much higher. Also consider the wire size you would need to run that pump depending on distance from the source.
By comparison, that little Seaflo pump has a run power of 90 watts. It does only supply 3.3 gpm at about 45 psi, though. The only real issue is the shower, but we found a smaller removable rain head shower head works well. Just don't expect that anyone else can use water when you're in the shower.
If you do end up going the storage tank route, check around locally for second hand IBC totes. Ours were 1 use tanks used to transport agave syrup to a local cookie maker. Cost us $100 each. You can get black covers for them on Amazon to keep sunlight out. The covers are a bit pricey but look way better than the tarp I was using.
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Alpine_Junky
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# Posted: 15 Oct 2020 02:02pm
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Have you looked at flowlight pumps? They offer 12-48V DC & 110V AC units. They are capable of about an 18' lift (the manual says 20' but in my experience that is a push. If you have any head, they work dandy.
These units also don't take much battery to run -- so you can have water all the time with a minimal battery bank charged by your genny when needed - or even a small solar array.
I have a 12v with a buried 1765 gallon infiltrator cistern & a 80 gallon pressure tank with a cut in @ 45psi and out @ 60psi. It supplies water just like a normal system and runs the hot H2O on demand unit just perfect with no fuss. Showers, clothes washer, etc.
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2020 05:01pm
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Well, one thing about the Internet is that you can ask absolutely stupid questions in complete anonymity.
Can someone give me a simple formula for determining head?
The shoreline slopes away pretty dramatically and I'm not sure how I can measure from water level to ground level
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scott100
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2020 07:41pm
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How about a gps app on your phone that also shows elevation. That would give you a pretty easy way to get a ballpark.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 22 Oct 2020 11:33pm - Edited by: ICC
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0.43 PSI per foot of elevation/head
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2020 05:27am
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We used a laser transit to measure elevation for our property. I alreaty owned it but they can be rented. You can also use a grade rod along with a 3ft level. But you need two people.
When in doubt get a bigger pump.
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justins7
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2020 10:44am
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I don't know if this helps but I've used my portable Milwaukee transfer pump in similar situations, and it works great. It's not a permanent situation, but it could helpful (at least not in sub-freezing temps).
This past summer we ran out of water in our spring-fed system. So I used the transfer pump to get water from my pond UPHILL about 75-100' away. The pump was great — I had garden hose attachments and it filled up my 250g reserve tank in a few hours.
I've also used the Seaflo indoors. It's great for interior plumbing.
Again, maybe not the perfect solution but having that transfer pump is a godsend for a lot of water projects. You just need a few batteries since they run out after about 20-30 minutes of pumping as I did.
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rachelsdad
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# Posted: 24 Oct 2020 05:21am
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How about a gps app on your phone that also shows elevation.
Have several for backpacking....I'll try it, Interesting to see how detailed the readings are
We used a laser transit to measure elevation for our property. I already owned it but they can be rented.
$46 at Home Depot!!
I've used my portable Milwaukee transfer pump in similar situations,
Neat trick but I don't think the boss would go for it. She can be that way....
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