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smitty
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2011 07:12am
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I am pondering this method of foundation.
LINK
Has anyone done this method? Hows it holding up?
What's your thoughts on this?
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Gary O
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2011 09:08am
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Boy, I really like it Smitty!
I'd imagine it's not for all applications, but it darn near looks perfect for me, as I do not wish to tear up the terrain with equipment (as they mention)
The key, it seems (as they state):
"Low clay content in the soil is mandatory for stability"
That's us.
Thank you for the connect.
Gary O'
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tony
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2011 02:26pm
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Thats the way I did it ! Seems to be working, no clay or even any real soil where my cabin is though!
I should add that I have no real frost line either, that might be a problem in a colder climate.
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smitty
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# Posted: 7 Apr 2011 08:17pm
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The frost line is what I am curious about.
Here in Indiana, that's pretty much how they do back yard sheds, and workshops. The shed next door to us is roughly 16x24 with a full loft, would make a good sized cabin :)
But that's how they installed it maybe 6 years ago, and so far it hasn't moved.
They dug down about 16 inches, tamped down gravel, and stacked 12x12 pads and layed the 4x4 skids on the pads. It's been solid for 6 years.
From what I can see, Indiana frost line is about the same as NY.
And with adjustable pier blocks, if some settling, or shifting were to occur, seems like it would be an easy fix to adjust it a turn or two.
Going to buy materials this weekend. Got a lot of decisions to make still..
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dvgchef
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2011 12:29pm
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I loved the idea of this and gave it a try with a free standing deck. I would love to say it worked, but it did not. My property does have some clay. The first year was fine, but this year it looks like a twister came in - all the parts are tossed about. They don't call it frost heave for nothing!
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fpw
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2011 04:39pm
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For the cabin, I would get below the frost line. That way you are sure it won't shift. If I couldn't I would install some heavy duty screw jacks so you could level things out (photo below shows a light duty screw jack)
http://peelinglogs.blogspot.com/2008/09/blog-post_21.html
http://peelinglogs.blogspot.com/2008/09/blog-post_28.html
http://peelinglogs.blogspot.com/2008/10/peeling-and-cutting-stumps.html
DSC01895.JPG
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DSC02317.JPG
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Jack.jpg
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fpw
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2011 04:40pm
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Minnesota frost line was 42"
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projectnorth
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2011 04:56pm
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I'd go down below the frost line. A solid foundation is worth the effort. Put your sonotubes down and fill them with concrete. Not hard really and not expensive.
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Jeremy165
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# Posted: 30 Apr 2011 09:54pm
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I like those adjustable screw jacks. Sure would be helpful if you have different soil types and the corners settle at different rates.
The only possible problem I see with smitty's foundation is there is no protection from uplift. Granted it'd have to be a huge gust to push the whole cabin and piers off the pavers. Anyone else worried about that? I remember you were thinking about an A-frame (like me, yay!) so almost zero uplift potential there.
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smitty
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# Posted: 1 May 2011 01:45pm - Edited by: smitty
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I'm sure a lot of you have had the same problem to think about.
Only place I have to get water, to mix concrete is the creek. I'd have to haul it at least two acres bucket by bucket through the woods.
No other way to get concrete in there. And it's going to take a lot of mixing.
That website looked like they had the perfect solution for me.
Just when I think I got it figured out, and got a solid plan. I always second guess it, and change lol..
I'm personally not worried about up lift.
Being buried in trees should block a lot of wind. Unless a tornado comes through, I don;t think it'd be a problem out there. But that's why I came here. To ask the pros, that have been there done that, and learned from their own mistakes, so I don;t make the same mistakes with mine.
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JH Fish
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# Posted: 2 May 2011 11:47am
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Quoting: smitty Only place I have to get water, to mix concrete is the creek. I'd have to haul it at least two acres bucket by bucket through the woods.
Could you get some drums and tarps and start collecting rainwater. With all the rain some areas have had this spring.....
I was looking at gasoline powered concrete mixers last year but have not checked this year.
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Jeremy165
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# Posted: 5 May 2011 02:28pm
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I put a mixing bit on the end of my drill and mixed about 30 bags one day. Make sure to get a concrete mixing bit and not one for mixing paint.
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soundandfurycabin
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# Posted: 5 May 2011 04:07pm
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Jeremy, what kind/power drill did you use? I didn't think mine would be up to the task so I bought one of these Diablo concrete mixers when Home Depot had them on sale for $99... http://www.amazon.com/Freud-DM800E-Amp-Diablo-Mixer/dp/B001IWO8H0
What kind of paddle did you use? Any other tips?
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smitty
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# Posted: 5 May 2011 07:47pm
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Maybe it's a good idea, to pound a well point before I get started...
Thinking maybe that should be the first thing to tackle on the list.
What do you all think?
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JH Fish
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# Posted: 6 May 2011 08:29am
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That sounds like a great plan. How much success have your neighbors had in putting in a well? A lot of folks construct the outbuilding before the house so they have a secure and dry place for materials. Put in the storage shed and the well first and you can put a few worries behind you.
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PlicketyCat
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# Posted: 9 May 2011 03:37am - Edited by: PlicketyCat
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Did something similar with our cabin (we're on discontinuous permafrost, so digging in footers and posts is not recommended).
A pic of our setup before we got too far along
We used a few inches of packed gravel for a base, poured a 2" reinforced 3'x3' concrete pad, then 2' of 10" diameter concrete pier in tubes. We topped those with heavy-duty Ellis 6x6 timber jacks and attached our 6x12 sill beams. Our cabin is 16x24, so we only needed 4 piers on each side since the floor joists are 2x12, 16" oc, which is more than enough to make the 16' span unsupported. (check out our blog post and video)
Now, if we get any heave or settling during freeze or break up, we can simply stick a 2x4 in the jack screw's lug and relevel the cabin easy as pie. We've only had to make minor adjustments as we built up and added weight, but so far she hasn't moved this spring and everything is still level.
You can build the same principle foundation using FDN treated wood (permanent wood foundation). You just build your pads and attach posts. The screw jacks can then be placed between the pad and the post or the post and the beam (I recommend up top, it's easier to adjust in the snow!).
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larryh
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# Posted: 9 May 2011 08:13pm
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We have a lot of clay in the soil where I am. I have always been interested in pole type or footing type buildings because of the relative ease of construction. But I already had an experience with a small chicken house I constructed on some concrete blocks sinking almost a foot in a few years. I have noticed recently a commercial building, of a small size that is on very large pyramid shaped corner supports with beams on top of them. Its been sitting fine for quite some time. Also a historical museum has a lot of log buildings they have assembled after moving them One is also on large rock stacks in a pyramid shape, one of each corner and one on each side in the middle. I will have to try and find out what kind of base they put them on to get them to stay in place on this clay soil. I love the system in the first link however, but unless it was a really deep base of rock or concrete I doubt it would work here. Also the leveling idea never quite occurred to me either, that is a great feature, but I don't think those allow for much compensation once its in place.
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PlicketyCat
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# Posted: 9 May 2011 10:42pm
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With our timber jacks, we have 3" of adjustment up or down on each pier because we installed them level in the middle of the screw. All-in-all, that gives us 6" of adjustment total if some piers raise and the other piers lower. If for some reason one or two piers get so far out that we need more than 6" of play or if the whole cabin starts sinking into the glacial silt clay down to the sill beams, we can wind up each jack individually, which would lift the existing pad completely off the ground, and then add a larger or thicker pad (or more gravel base) under each one, one-at-a-time all the way around the house to get it level and above ground again.
The biggest thing to consider with pad & post/pier foundations is the bearing capacity of your soil vs the weight of your structure. If your clay soil has a really low bearing capacity, then you might be better off laying down a gravel base (6-12") and then building your cabin on a skid foundation so you increase the weight displacement over a larger area. There's no reason you couldn't have your skids on gravel base, and a timber jack between those and your cabin's sill beam if you wanted to be up a little higher or be able to relevel a bit after things we built.
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smitty
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# Posted: 10 May 2011 01:30am - Edited by: smitty
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Thank you PC..
Great pics, and GREAT cabin..
The way I see it, is if it works if Alaska, where the winters are extreme, and the thaw is extreme, it should work just about anywhere. The routine maintenance does not bother me. Especially on a building this size. On a 2000sqft home, sure, I wouldn't dream of it. but a simple cabin structure. That's the ticket..
I don;t see a whole lot of difference between the leveling blocks they used, and the timber blocks you used, other than yours looks heavier built. Same principal. I like it a lot. And boy would that save a TON of work, and materials.
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PlicketyCat
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# Posted: 10 May 2011 01:31pm
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Yeah the cabins we're building aren't much larger than a shed or garage most of the time and they are pretty light in comparison to a typical 3BR 2BA suburban home. Foundations are a pain so there's no reason to over-engineer it if you don't have to, just make sure you displace the weight over a large enough area for your soil.
One thing about surface foundations though... you absolutely need to install some form of earth anchor to prevent the house from tipping over, especially if you're in a seismic or high wind area and you're on piers or posts. We'll be using tension cables attached to the corners of our beam with heavy eye lags , run diagonally under the crawlspace, and anchored in with 3' ground screws. That will prevent racking/tipping in all directions. If you're on a skid foundation pretty close to the ground, you can use earth anchors attached to plates on your beam. But driving in an anchor is a million times easier than digging a foundation below frost level :)
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Bzzzzzt
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# Posted: 25 May 2011 05:52pm - Edited by: Bzzzzzt
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I'm new here and, actually, this is my first post. I saw those piers in the link and was wondering where you could get some like that? I went to my local Lowes and Home Depot and neither had ever seen or heard of anything like that. They both carry the standard 4 way deck piers that are similar, but I don't think they would suit my purpose as they're not designed to have a 4x(6) set in them sideways. the ones they carry can have a 4x4 sit in them on end or 2x(8) sit in them lengthways. Those ones in that link look perfect for what I want but just don't know where to go about looking for them.
Thanks รท)
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PlicketyCat
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# Posted: 25 May 2011 06:42pm
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I've found them at the HD here, but different stores have different stock. You may also want to try other local hardware stores, lumber yards, or concrete distributors.
I know that Dek-Block makes a pyramid-style pier block that is designed to accept 2" lumber on edge horizontally or a 4x4 post on end vertically. You can check this site to see if there is a distributor in your area.
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PlicketyCat
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# Posted: 25 May 2011 07:00pm - Edited by: PlicketyCat
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Strong-Tie makes post bases for standard pier blocks that can also accept 4x4 or 4x6 beams laid horizontally (as in the OP link). Most hardware and home improvement stores sell these connectors/post bases, or you can order online at places like ConnectorsOnly.
All you need to use those is a pyramid precast deck pier with a hole drilled in it, which I've found at Lowes, HD, Ace, True Value, my local lumber yard, and my local nursery. They're usually easier to find than the Dek-Block piers that are designed as "universal" pier blocks.
Actually, you can cast your own concrete pier blocks by building a form out of plywood and scrap lumber... that's sometimes easier than finding just the one you want in a store.
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Bzzzzzt
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# Posted: 25 May 2011 07:10pm - Edited by: Bzzzzzt
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The home depot here did have ones that would accept 2" (or a 4x4 vertically), just not the ones where you can put a 4x(6) in vertically like the one in the link smitty posted. Those were the ones I was looking for.
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PlicketyCat
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# Posted: 25 May 2011 07:53pm
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You might want to try getting a solid pier block and then using the Strong-Tie post bases to lay in your 4x6 beams. If you can't find the solid pier blocks at HD, check with a lumber yard or landscape/deck contractor... they should be able to tell you where you can get the solid piers because that's what most folks use as deck foundations. If the right Strong-Tie connectors aren't available at your local HD, check online... we had to order almost all our connectors because our HD & Lowes had a very limited selection.
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TWilliams
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2011 07:20pm
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Hey Smitty
We have just finished our foundation with this method. I sure hope it works out. Instead of piers however we used blocks ontop of the slabs because we are using a skid foundation. The skids will rest ontop of these blocks.
In this picture all the blocks (with the exception of the font left) have been leveled and are ready for the skids.
I'll keep you posted on how it goes
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TWilliams
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2011 07:21pm
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try loading the picture again
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smitty
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2011 07:24pm
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Please do..
I would very much like to see how you fare with it..
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smitty
Member
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# Posted: 16 Jun 2011 07:25pm
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P.S. What area are you doing this in?
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2011 10:18am
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Pound in your sand point. Then plan your cabin around it you can have a pump in the kitchen. Water in the cabin with out a lot of plumbing problems. An added benefit would be very few freezing pipes.
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