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eligh
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 06:44pm - Edited by: eligh
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Hi,
I've decided to build a 12x12 "shed" until I can build the 24x32 the way I really want it.
This 12x12 is being built off to the side of my main cabin area so it can be used as a garage/shed for storage once the main cabin is built.
With that said, it might be a couple more summers before I finish the main cabin so I want to make this 12x12 as sturdy as possible. We don't get snow but maybe once every five years. But we do get high winds annually. I plan on having ten foot ceilings. I have already spaced the 2x8 floor joists 12oc. Would it be wise to do the studs 12oc as well or will 16oc already be plenty strong enough?
BTW I'm only going with 2x4 studs.
As seen in the picture the cabin is sitting on doubled 2x8 and they will sit on top of one cinder block. I'll adjust the cabin with a bottle jack and shims as needed.
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Popeye
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 11:26pm
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16" is fine. It will make insulating a lot easier.
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Ontario lakeside
Member
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# Posted: 23 Jul 2020 11:44pm
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16" is more than adequate. 4000sf 2 story homes are framed 16"OC. your sheathing with provide shear strength for wind loads.
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eligh
Member
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2020 06:22am
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Quoting: Popeye 16" is fine. It will make insulating a lot easier
I'm going to go all out and do closed cell foam.
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Houska
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2020 06:45am - Edited by: Houska
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You did good by overengineering the floor. The 12" OC joists is overkill for a sleep cabin or small shed but will help hold really heavy stuff without the floor bowing once you're actually using the structure as a true shed/garage. With this in mind, don't cheap out on the (sub)floor. I'd go 3/4" PT plywood, not 5/8", to match (or boards). And for that eventual use case, I probably would have put an extra support beam on blocks perpendicular to the joists at the 6' mark: very probably unnecessary, but easy and cheap now and avoids worry if you ever want to store a UTV and pile of wood in there even long-term, for instance. And unlike my area, your ground is flat so it's easy.
But there's no reason to similarly overengineer the studs, as long as you're using anything sensible as sheathing.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2020 07:29am
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If this will eventually hold equipment like a quad, garden tractor or anything else that will more than likely be parked in the middle I would put a second girder down the middle. If you do this and use 3/4in tongue and grove sub floor you could prob use 24in spacing.
Snow and wind dosnt have much to do with floor joist spacing. Span, lumber size and what you expect out of a sub floor has to do with spacing.
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eligh
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2020 04:54pm
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Quoting: Brettny You did good by overengineering the floor. The 12" OC joists is overkill for a sleep cabin or small shed but will help hold really heavy stuff without the floor bowing once you're actually using the structure as a true shed/garage. With this in mind, don't cheap out on the (sub)floor. I'd go 3/4" PT plywood, not 5/8", to match (or boards). And for that eventual use case, I probably would have put an extra support beam on blocks perpendicular to the joists at the 6' mark: very probably unnecessary, but easy and cheap now and avoids worry if you ever want to store a UTV and pile of wood in there even long-term, for instance. And unlike my area, your ground is flat so it's easy. But there's no reason to similarly overengineer the studs, as long as you're using anything sensible as sheathing. Brettny Member # Posted: 24 Jul 2020 07:29 Reply Quote If this will eventually hold equipment like a quad, garden tractor or anything else that will more than likely be parked in the middle I would put a second girder down the middle. If you do this and use 3/4in tongue and grove sub floor you could prob use 24in spacing. Snow and wind dosnt have much to do with floor joist spacing. Span, lumber size and what you expect out of a sub floor has to do with spacing.
Both of your replies are in the quote.
1. 3/4" ply is already the plan (it's only five sheets at $31). Not much savings for using osb or thinner ply. I've even seen some go 7/8 but I have to source that first.
2. I thought about the 3rd beam but "read" myself out of it by reading so many posts here saying 3 beams for such a small structure was extreme overkill and also it's much harder to level 3 beams vs 2.
It won't be used for tractors but dirt bikes, riding mower or 4 wheelers might be stored in here. That's another reason why I went 12oc for floor joists.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 24 Jul 2020 07:26pm
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Since you have no snow load bringing the beams in a bit from the edge can help and you not need 12inoc. You should also use some type of blocking or something to keep the doubled 2x from flipping down.
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eligh
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# Posted: 25 Jul 2020 05:33am
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Yes the plan is to bring the beams in one foot from the edges so it will be a ten foot span instead of twelve.
After I put the end caps on I did think to myself about shoving a cmu at the six foot mark so the beams won't sag.
As I said before snow is not my issue but high winds are. Here's my current example
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Brettny
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# Posted: 25 Jul 2020 08:03am
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Not having the building attached to anything in the ground and being 10ft (walls?) Isnt going to help with the wind. Keep something heavy in there.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 25 Jul 2020 12:02pm - Edited by: NorthRick
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Yeah, if high wind is the worry, having this shed just sitting on cinder blocks is your problem. You could build it with studs on 6" centers and it won't matter because it will get blown onto your neighbor's property.
Go with 16" oc studs and get some helic-type anchors to hold it down.
Also close-cell foam for a shed is wasting money. Fiberglass is fine.
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eligh
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jul 2020 01:32pm - Edited by: eligh
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Quoting: NorthRick get some helic-type anchors to hold it down.
Recommendation link???
Something like this?
https://americanearthanchors.com/which-anchor-should-i-use/sheds/
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eligh
Member
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2020 11:45am
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Quoting: Brettny If you do this and use 3/4in tongue and grove sub floor you could prob use 24in spacing.
Lumber yard tried to sell me on 1 1/8 ply subfloor
Is that too far beyond what I need?
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ICC
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# Posted: 27 Jul 2020 02:06pm - Edited by: ICC
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Quoting: eligh Lumber yard tried to sell me on 1 1/8 ply subfloor
For a shed that was not used for HEAVY machinery that would be a waste of materials. I do have 1-1/8" Advantech floors.
IF you are in a hurricane zone I think building elevated makes a lot of sense to help avoid the potential damage from storm surge flooding. But having the sructure sitting on blocks is simply asking for it to be blown away. There are special rules or advice for building in such areas. Homes on piles make a lot of sense when there is large storm surge danger. But piles are not just the common pier you see DIY'ers build on.
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eligh
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2020 06:36am - Edited by: eligh
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Quoting: ICC IF you are in a hurricane zone I think building elevated makes a lot of sense to help avoid the potential damage from storm surge flooding.
I'm 300 miles north of the coast. Think Dallas or Shreveport.
The high winds I'm speaking of are more tornados (which are not uncommon).
I'm on to the roof. I'm thinking about a shed roof with 1/12 pitch using r panels. 10 ft from wall and 9 ft back wall.
Finished installing the rest of the joists in between storms.
I'm standing between my water well and the shed. It is 80 ft been the two. That's 1 inch PEX that runs 300 feet behind the shed to a garden. The electrical conduit runs 200 ft behind the shed to my kids' treehouse. I built it last year, 8 ft up in a tree.
Can I turn this into a build thread and change the title of the post?
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2020 08:14am
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Make sure you look up what minimum pitch is needed for your roofing. 1/12 is pretty low for anything but a rubber roof.
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eligh
Member
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# Posted: 28 Jul 2020 10:58pm
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Quoting: Brettny Reply Quote Make sure you look up what minimum pitch is needed for your roofing. 1/12 is pretty low for anything but a rubber roof.
WHAT IS THE MINIMUM ROOF SLOPE RECOMMENDED FOR R PANEL?
R Panels should not be installed on a roof that is less than a 1/2:12 pitch. When this panel is installed on pitches less than 1/2:12, heavy rainfall may lead to water accumulation and possible leaks.
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eligh
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2020 11:00am
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My foundation are out of square a few inches
What tactics do you all use to fix it without total disassembly?
I've read ratchet straps or even a come along but I haven't seen either method in action
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Brettny
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2020 11:28am
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What part is out of square? A foundation can be many things.
If your floor joists are out of square you should get them in square. Usualy a ratchet strap works before you put the sub floor down.
Look up the 3 45 method of useing a tape measure to make things square. Way more accurate than a framing square. You could also measure diagonal across each corner.
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eligh
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2020 12:46pm
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Quoting: Brettny Brettny Member # Posted: 30 Jul 2020 11:28 Reply Quote What part is out of square? A foundation can be many things. If your floor joists are out of square you should get them in square. Usualy a ratchet strap works before you put the sub floor down. Look up the 3 45 method of useing a tape measure to make things square. Way more accurate than a framing square. You could also measure diagonal across each corner.
The floor joists are not square
In the picture above
All four sides are exactly 144" in length but the cross diagonals are not the same length
I keep reading on line to do ratchet straps but haven't found anybody on YouTube doing it yet
Heard to use eyelets with it as well
My plywood subfloor is not on yet so I'm going to ratchet it into square first then immediately put on subfloor before I unstrap it
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2020 02:40pm
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Theres nothing really holding it from moving but its weight. Push/pull the long corners together. You shouldn't have to hold it but one sheet nailed on should be enough
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2020 04:19pm
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Sledge hammer - no, seriously. That floor is small and light enough that a couple wacks on the right corner should square it right up.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2020 09:51am
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Quoting: NorthRick Sledge hammer - no, seriously. That floor is small and light enough that a couple wacks on the right corner should square it right up.
My thoughts too. Square it up, do not move forward till its perfect. And the same goes for the entire build. Anything out of plumb, level or square severely slows down the build by creating much more work and the further in you go, the slower everything gets. A plumb, level and square bld goes together so nice.
I think everyone in here will agree.
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2020 10:45am
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I always like to start in one corner when building a structure. From the foundation up through the entire project. Such as wall sheeting. If you can fasten one side down it will move around less.
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offgrididaho
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# Posted: 1 Aug 2020 01:02pm
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I used their earth anchors and some dyneema rope to guy wire out a ground solar mount and I've been very happy with how they worked out. I got some pretty large / long stakes and still drove them with a ratchet, no electric impact wrench like some people say you need. YMMV however based on type of soil.
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eligh
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2020 04:54am
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Back at it again and I'm really about to be tested
Laura is headed straight for us
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