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geobuild
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2020 01:53pm
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Hi All...... I'm new to this forum and have spent a lot of time the past few weeks reading and considering people's opinions. I'm planning to construct a 16" x 20" off-grid cabin on a sled foundation for part-time use on my in-laws property in mid-central Franklin County, NY in the Adirondack SP. I'm retired with some skills and will contract out the foundation and structure. I'm seriously considering Jamaica Cottage Shops Vermont Cottage B 3-season pre-cut 16x20 kit but it has three skids rather than two. I also want to look into local Amish builders (any recommendations?) The land is flat, about 500 feet from a brook that, according to the NRCS GIS doesn't flood but is poorly drained and depth to water table is 6-18 inches. There's fine sand from 5" to 80" down. I'm trying to figure out whether to do a crushed stone or some kind of pier foundation. I plan on a composting toilet, about 1000 watt solar system, basic grey water system, if I can and small wood burning stove. Since the property is in the ASP I'm following the Hunting and Fishing Cabins rules and regs and hoping the Town rules are the same or similar. I'm planning to visit the Town code enforcement people this summer. ASP hunting/cabin rules say you can go up to 500 sq ft, must be completely off-grid........ Any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks!
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2020 04:18pm
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Don't use Jamaica Cottage. They are very expensive and then you have to build the cabin yourself. They just deliver precut lumber. I would look into local Amish builders. They are everywhere upstate NY, you can see the portable sheds basically in every town for sale. They are build like a shed but if you order you can modify it anyway you want (like 2x6 walls, 16 oc, floor and roofing material, etc...). They also deliver for free. If you want to set the cabin on gravel pad than make sure it is properly done. Ideal would be on a small hill away from the creek and at least 6-8 inches of gravel very well compacted. Before you do gravel scrape away the top soil. Many people here done this this way and the cabin movement in winter is almost non existent. Gravel pad is cheapest way of foundation. As far as I know you can build up to 144 sq feet in NYS without permits, some towns allow more, like mine allowed up to 196 sq feet. If you build hunting camp and tell town about that they are more lenient, also depends on the inspector. By the way Amish cabins are build to code. If you are is Adirondack Park than make sure everything is by the book. APA is a pain from what I heard. Good luck. Here is some pictures from my cabin on skids.
20180917_163920.jpg
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20180901_144222.jpg
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Brettny
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2020 04:24pm
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Your in the ADK park? You will need to follow and apply for a permit with the APA. There alot more strict than the towns. Don't use a skid foundation if your going to pay to contract it out at least build something to last. Do your research on the Jamaica cottage shop buildings, I have heard bad things about there kits.
Il be willing to bet local amish can build a better building for cheaper than Jamaica cottage shop. For a bit of reference we had a local shed builder deliver us a 10x14 with 8ft walls and 6x6 skids for $3200 delivered and after tax. Turns out they just buy them from a amish builder. I believe it came from the herkimer county area.
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2020 06:03pm
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Quoting: Brettny Don't use a skid foundation if your going to pay to contract it out at least build something to last.
Why would skid foundation not last if done properly? It is going to outlast PT wood sunk in ground. Especially today's PT wood. I have seen cabins on skids last for over 25 years and they are still there, where PT piers ( not talking cement) almost always have problems.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2020 08:34pm
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No one said put PT wood in the ground. If skids last for ever and PT posts don't in ground there's really not much difference. You still have wood on the dirt. No matter how well compacted your gravel pad is you will still get leaf debris that blow under and rot, making dirt.
Wood never belongs in contact with the ground no matter how its treated. I'm sure there are a million skid foundation buildings still standing but if you start off with a crappy foundation no matter how you build after that your still going to have a crappy cabin.
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xtolekbananx
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2020 09:07pm
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I understand there are better foundations than skids but it cost a whole lot more. You need probably professionals to do the work if you dont have the skills, skids on the other hand are easy for anybody and skids dont sit on dirt, they are sitting on 6-8 inches of compacted gravel which provides good draining, leaves? I had mine setup like this for over 5 years and no leaves get there, also I have no problem with critters as there is just stone underneath. My foundation cost me about a $1000 with labor and materials, other would cost few thousand dollars for either concrete pad or concrete piers. Of course concrete is better but the question was about skids. If I spend few thousand dollars on foundation than I would build a small cabin lime a house with plumbing and all. If this is supposed to be completely off grid with no bathroom and you are trying to save money, just search skid foundation on this forum. You will find plenty good tips. Anyway choice is yours.
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AK Seabee
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2020 10:07pm
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We have a lot of ground movement in Alaska. I have a 20 year old shed built on skids with pressure treated lumber (green) for the joists, 4x6 skids and 3/4 plywood floor. Shed is 12x16. Skids sit on adjustable pier blocks. No rot.
The key is to avoid ground contact and allow for air flow
underneath.
Pier blocks sit on silt gravel so every 4 or 5 years I re-level using a bottle jack. About an hour to re-level. Jack enough to relieve the weight and turn the nut on the bottom of the bracket to level. Simple enough.
Your 16x20 is larger than my shed but should still be ok. Talk with a local builder to verify as you may want to form your own pier blocks to accept more weight.
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deercula
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2020 10:55am - Edited by: deercula
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I took the Amish route and couldn't be happier! None of the usual hassle that contractors put you through.
Going on 4 years and not a single problem.
The biggest advantage, besides lower cost, is that they know what the locals require. My builder has been in the area for years.They knew just how deep to put the piers, roof pitch, overhangs, insulation etc.. Built to my drawings exactly. I chose where to put windows and door, cabinets, heater, loft etc.. They used their knowledge to decide size of lumber, spans, spacing etc..
I would use them again in a heartbeat! Consider them "craftsmen" not just builders.
My build thread:
https://www.small-cabin.com/forum/6_6589_0.html
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2020 11:34am
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Wow , lots of folks just got told they have crappy cabins. Appears that you are doing your research. You can rent ground compactors also . They do a pretty good job and if you wet it a bit it helps . I would also consider placing some 6 mil plastic down as a vapor barrier. Enjoy the cabin build n welcome.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2020 01:37pm
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Yes I consider a cabin that you have to relevel every year or take the door off and cut some off the bottom poorly built. The time to build on a proper foundation was the day you break ground. It's very hard and expensive to do 20yrs later. I really don't see a completely compacted crushed stone bed much easier or cheaper in the end.
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SE Ohio
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2020 02:22pm
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A few off-grid cabin considerations-
Avoid porous indoor surfaces to minimize mold/mildew and make for easy wipe down. I like drywall...
Solar powered fan to circulate air
Rubber sink traps - don’t have to remember to pour antifreeze in drains
Pitcher pump for water, no freeze worries. Otherwise pipes have to be drained, etc. We heat water on stove and use drop-in-container pump for shower.
I “winterize†by turning off lights and locking door!
SE Ohio
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2020 08:18pm
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Rubber sink traps..that's a good one SE Ohio. Does that really let them not crack even below say 15* for weeks?
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SE Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2020 08:24pm
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Brettny,
I’ve not been able to subject mine to that time/temp.
Perhaps you can try? Mine used in Ohio has not failed in 8 years or so.
I can guess that a rigid p trap won’t survive without antifreeze.
SE Ohio
https://www.amazon.com/LASCO-25-6860-Flexible-Rubber-P-Trap/dp/B00ITPGPAC
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snobdds
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# Posted: 16 Apr 2020 05:07pm
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I've had a small cabin on skids that is over 50 years old now. It sits on a rock and does not have water issues. However it still moves from year to year. When I built a new cabin, guess what approach I went with...a pier foundation.
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geobuild
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# Posted: 18 Apr 2020 11:39am
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Thank you all for your replies! I have to wait until the stay-at-home restrictions are lifted and then will travel to the property and look at the two areas I found on aerial photos that look promising. I'm leaning towards a skid foundation on crushed stone and will visit the APA and local Town code people to try to get some insights into whether what I'm planning will pass muster. Thanks again!
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Brettny
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# Posted: 19 Apr 2020 06:23am
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I believe you can call the APA or town. They should still be there...I think. Usually the APA has final say over the towns and in some cases each town downt even have an inspector and just uses the county inspector.
I had a few phone calls with our Cheango county inspector prior to even buying the property. I don't think skids on blocks will pass code.
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deercula
Member
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# Posted: 19 Apr 2020 07:49am
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Lots of info online ............
https://apa.ny.gov/property_owners/permitProcess.html
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geobuild
Member
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# Posted: 16 May 2020 08:43pm
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Thank you all for the suggestions and hints! As I mentioned, I'm going to build in mid-central Franklin County, NY in the Adirondack SP. Can anyone recommend any Amish builders in the region? Tough to get this info online.
I like the Adirondack gable-end cabin style and looking to go with 16' x 24' and possibly add a deck in the future.
I'm thinking a 20' x 28' x 12" thick gravel foundation. The ground is sandy and flat. I'm planning to use two skids of (4) 2" x 12" x 24' pressure treated lumber glued and bolted together and 14' apart leaving 12" cantilever. There would be 5 piers for each skid of concrete block.
Floor joists would be 2" x 10" x 16' pressure treated on 16" centers and the decking would be 5/8" plywood (not pressure treated). I'd use furring strips in the floor joist bays and lay in 4" of poly rigid insulation, then 6 mil plastic vapor barrier with decking on top.
How am I doing?
Thanks.
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