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CabinBuild
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 01:03pm
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Hi all, I've changed my plans from a 20x20 A-Frame to a 16x24 cabin with a loft and a saltbox style roof.
I created a spreadsheet and filled in the rough costs of foundation, subfloor, framing, roofing, windows, doors, flooring, driveway, plumbing, electric, interior paneling, and basic kitchen, bathroom, furniture, and appliances.
I'm still trying to figure out insulation options, and was wondering if I could share my build worksheet with some of y'all to get a better idea of where I need to add things and where I could cut costs.
Thanks!
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Nate R
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 01:09pm
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Sure, how to share it though? Email? A link to somwhere online or?
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CabinBuild
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 01:23pm
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Does this forum allow private messages? I have a link, but would rather not share it on the forum directly.
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 01:47pm
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Does it include a virus or malware?? Why not post screen shots.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 02:30pm
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Below the field that you type your posts in, there is the statement "You may attach pictures or other files to your message. Read Uploading Rules before!"
Click o the link and read the rules. You will see that we cannot upload anything other than some image formats and there are limits on them.
Post a link to it in Google Drive or whatever, or post a screenshot image.
No PM's here.
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CabinBuild
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 04:08pm - Edited by: CabinBuild
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I have attached a pdf of the spreadsheet and a picture of the build shape. Are they viewable/downloadable?
So far I've learned the sheet is missing fascia, exterior siding, coatings, window/door trim, and blocking.
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AKfisher
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 04:39pm
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Quoting: CabinBuild So far I've learned the sheet is missing fascia, exterior siding, coatings, window/door trim, and blocking.
Maybe you have accounted for it but I didn't see metal screws for the roof. They are expensive and add up. All Ice n Water shield? or will you have felt as well?
Electrical panel, breakers.
How are you spreading the gravel? Equipment rental?
Scaffolding rental or building scaffolding?
How are you heating the place again.
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CabinBuild
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 05:00pm
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How much do the roof screws typically cost per sq ft (or whatever measurement would be used for that)?
Do I need felt in addition to the Ice n Water shield? What's the purpose?
Agh forgot the electric panel and breaker box. Hadn't thought about the gravel spread or scaffolding either. Any tips?
I was leaning toward south facing windows and either a wood stove or electric heating. Would rather not have to deal with propane.
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AKfisher
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 06:34pm
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Quoting: CabinBuild How much do the roof screws typically cost per sq ft (or whatever measurement would be used for that)? Do I need felt in addition to the Ice n Water shield? What's the purpose?
Here is a link to estimate screws. http://allsteelmetal.com/metal-roofing-and-trim/product-guide-page/27/how-to-calculat e-and-place-screws
As for the cost, Home Depot / Lowes sells them by the bag.
Typically you would do Ice n Water Shield the first 6' of roof not including eave, the rest can be felt (30#). Some times it makes sense to do the whole roof in bituthene, ease of layout, easy to walk on, but has down sides - Costs more and is heavy.
Rent a skidsteer for a few hours to spread gravel, or spread it by hand.
I bought scaffolding from HD, did the double stack for working inside the cabin in the winter. It really paid off when doing insulation and T&G ceiling.
As for wood stove, the stove will cost $1k and the pipe will be $1k. The closer to the ridge the better for snow sliding.
Roof panels with 30# felt
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Scaffolding and R30 rockwool
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Stove and pipe
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Stove and Pipe - Finished
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 07:23pm
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That style of cabin your showing OP would work perfectly as a higher pitch roof on the low side and make the loft into a dormer style roof.
You really need to play around with interior layout programs prior to picking an exterior size. I think after you do this you will find that 16ft wide is not wide enough.
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Nate R
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 08:39pm
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Electric heater's probably much cheaper up front, but you'll pay more to heat it per kwh..... My wood stove (Jotul) cost me $1600, and I'll probably spend another $1200 on chimney parts. But I won't have grid power, and a wood stove is pretty much a requirement for me to have it feel like a cabin. 
Permit cost(s)? Drawing/plan costs?
Wall covering? Floor covering? Or are you worrying about taht stuff later/separately?
Toilet? Sinks? Faucets? Shower/Tub? And $300 for cabinets? Bargain if you can pull that off!
My opinion: Why use advantech sheathing if you're going to use cheap (not the best airsealing) windows? In my area, it's like $20/sheet vs $8 for OSB..... But you DO need a WRB then....
FWIW, I just got a window quote, with tax, I'm looking at $5500 for 10 windows, essentially. But my wife wanted windows that were black inside and out...not the cheapest.
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Princelake
Member
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2020 07:00am
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I have a full invoice with Canadian pricing for a standard 16x24 cabin with no loft if you want it. Its for a weather tight structure does not include insulation or anything. The building store made it up for me.
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CabinBuild
Member
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2020 08:12am
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@AKfisher, I appreciate the advice. I recalculated the number of metal roofing panels I will need and it looks like it will be 5 21ft panels and 5 6ft panels (both at 36 inches wide). I wasn't sure how to convert that to linear ft via the calculator. I'm also debating switching to shingles, as I hear they work better with solar if I decide to go that route in the future. What's the difference between Bituthene and Ice and Water Shield (or are they the same)? Noted about the gravel spreading and scaffolding. I think I might be able to borrow scaffolding from a neighbor. I'd love a wood stove, but I've also heard wood stoves require regular maintenance of the pipe and are difficult to maintain a consistent temperature. How has your experience with it been?
Brettny, I'm leaning toward no dormer as the roof height would already be 6 ft on the low end of the loft, so the extra height wouldn't really be needed. While I'd love to go wider, every extra 4 ft ups the cost of everything (foundation, subfloor, siding, interior, roofing, etc.).
@Nate, same question to you as to AKfisher, how is your experience with the stove? If you had relatives or friends staying at your place without you, would you trust them to operate it properly? I'm ideally trying to keep the place low-maintenance. Permits are going to be part of the budget, but it depends where I build. Wall coverings, flooring, toilet, sinks, showers are included in the spreadsheet (unless you mean coatings, which I do need to add). For the cabinets I was thinking simple like this. I'm still trying to figure out the best sheathing option (zips vs advantech vs osb/house wrap). Open to suggestions on that as well as windows I figure I will save on the windows by buying used and/or contractor leftovers.
@Princelake that would be amazing! I imagine mine will cost more due to the loft and the different style of roof, but the costing would be helpful.
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AKfisher
Member
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2020 01:13pm - Edited by: AKfisher
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We are off grid so we don't have any electricity. Run generator to power lights and ceiling fan for now. Wood stove for primary heat and kerosene heater for initial warm up of the cabin. I can get the cabin from 0 degrees to 65 degrees in 4 hours. The logs soak up the heat, but once they are warm it is a breeze to keep going. We let friends and family stay at the cabin and use the fire place, no worries there. Swab the pipe out once a year and you are good, assuming you burn seasoned fire wood (reduce creosote). I have a Osburn 900 stove, the fire box is small so I have to get up around 3-4 am to feed it again, not a big deal for me. I picked up the wood stove for $300 lightly used, and the pipe was about $1100 with the roof box and rubber boot.
If you have power you could run a Diesel drip stove or a pellet stove.
Cabinets, Sink, cook stove can all be found in the classifieds. I bought new as I wasn't going to be waiting around for a deal or a tear out. I tiled the counter myself (inexpensive), actually I did all the work myself. That is the only way I could afford to build the place.
The windows are triple pain, I would advise against them. Great for a home, not great for a cabin. If they frost up on the outside, it is hard to get the windows warm enough to defrost them. I bought those new for around $1000. I didn't want to buy used takeout windows that were a custom size, so I bought new in a standard size. We have two kids, so if one gets broken I can replace easily.
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Nate R
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2020 01:20pm
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Quoting: CabinBuild @Nate, same question to you as to AKfisher, how is your experience with the stove? If you had relatives or friends staying at your place without you, would you trust them to operate it properly?
Good question, I don't know yet!
I bought my stove early to make sure it wasn't unavailable once the 2020 EPA regs kicked in. I wanted a specific model for size and clearances, as well as reputation...And I was afraid it wouldn't be available after May this year.....
My cabin isn't built yet, but I've had the land for several years and been camping on it. Last year I got drawings, the permit, my driveway graveled, and got the site prepped and a foundation poured. I'm hoping to start framing late this summer.
I DO know from my relative's place that has a wood stove...if you go that route then you have to stay on top of wood storage/drying, and processing if you cut and split it yourself. While a bit more expensive WHEN being used, electric baseboards will be a LOT lower maintenance, upkeep and worry than a wood stove. The other nice thing with that sort of heat source is it's much easier to remote into it and be able to monitor temps or turn it on before you head to the place so it's warmed up when you get there...
On the other hand, once my relative got their place insulated, using their wood stove hasn't been too bad for others to deal with. I think you'll have to decide what's most important to you there....
Makes sense on the permitting and such, I was assuming you already had land set and were just finalizing a budget. Makes sense to know what you'll spend on the build before you fully commit! Also makes sense on windows, smart way to go, plenty of mistake sizes or lightly used windows on Craigslist, etc. I haven't fully made up my own mind on sheathing, as OSB is more readily available/delivered in my area, but I like the idea of not having to deal with a WRB....
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CabinBuild
Member
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2020 04:00pm
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@AKfisher, pellet stoves look interesting. Sounds like they're cheaper to run than electric baseboards. Then again, the fireplace maintenance doesn't seem so bad either. Beautiful kitchen. I like the idea of using planks as interior cladding as well. Don't have to tell me twice about avoiding an expensive line item with the windows. Would you recommend double pane? I'd imagine with single pane too much heat would be let out.
@Nate Uh oh, didn't realize I had upcoming regulations to look out for. The slow and steady method of building seems like the way to go. I'd like to get things moving sooner though, hence all the questions and planning. If I ever decide to rent my place out, maybe the electric baseboards will be worth it, but otherwise I kind of like the idea of a pellet style heater. Exactly! I don't want to get 3/4 of the way done and realize I'm out of money. Plus, it'll help me prepare and keep my build lean. Regarding the sheathing, there are just so many decisions to make with building in general lol. Glad to hear others are wrestling with some of the same stuff I am too.
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Nate R
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# Posted: 1 Feb 2020 09:56am
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Quoting: CabinBuild @Nate Uh oh, didn't realize I had upcoming regulations to look out for.
Yes, as it stands now, there are 185 2020 approved models. There are 587 models in production today. Figure more will show up, but your options my be cut in half. And so far, Jotul doesn't show my model as 2020 compliant, so I may have been smart in buying early. (The F100).
The way the regs are currently written, non-compliant stoves won't just be able to not be produced after May this year, they can't even be SOLD after May. I assume some manufs have already stopped making some models they won't try and make meet the next round or regs, or that don't sell enough units to be worth the retest cost.
You can see the list here: https://cfpub.epa.gov/oarweb/woodstove/index.cfm
There is a checkbox to look at 2020 compliant only, so you can see the difference. I see Morso now has a small model certified....
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CabinBuild
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# Posted: 1 Feb 2020 01:26pm
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The 2020 models certainly seem efficient, which I'm sure would help with heating costs. Can non-compliant models still be used after May? I.e. if I have a house inspection after May.
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Nate R
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# Posted: 1 Feb 2020 01:34pm
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I don't think there's any issue with an existing wood stove unless your local AHJ has their own rules. (ie: if it is INSTALLED after May, I doubt it'd be a problem.)
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CabinBuild
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# Posted: 1 Feb 2020 02:07pm
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Sweet! Hm.. maybe it's time to start scouring craigslist.
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