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MJR0311
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2020 08:56am
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Guys- I need to know the best place ( books, websites, advice from personal experience) on roughing in my own plumbing. I have no well dug yet but i do have my water inlets, drains, vent pipes stubbed up thru my slab. I need to run water from the inlets to the kitchen area , bathroom, utility room, hose outlets...the whole thing. Maybe I should hire this out...but trying to save $$. Also, do any of you have experience with studor type vents vs traditional through the roof vents? Thanks.
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Atlincabin
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# Posted: 27 Jan 2020 09:38am
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A couple comments:
Water runs downhill. Waste lines typically have a slope around 1/4" per foot as a minimum. If you have a place that might freeze, set it up (again, water runs downhill) so that you can drain it fairly easily before leaving it. PEX pipe is supposedly freeze-proof whereas copper or PVC is not. I used PEX and set everything up to drain and no issues in 6 winters.
I dislike roof vents (actually anything that goes through the roof) because of the potential for leaks so I put my plumbing vent out the gable end of my cabin. They key is putting any vent where the prevailing wind will best remove any smell. Mine seems to work fine 99% of the time but occasionally we get a whiff of septic.
There are probably a lot of books out there on basic plumbing.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2020 07:44am
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Plumbing is not rocket science but you do need to know what's been done below the slab.
Since this is your first plumbing job use pex for the pressure side of things. Pex fittings are not freeze proof and there not very cheap so use as few as you can.
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Irrigation Guy
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2020 08:49am
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Just to expand on Atlncabin’s post. If you pitch greater than 1/4 per foot on a toilet drain you can run the risk of the liquids flowing past the solids and causing a back up. Rough plumbing isn't terribly hard but like anything there are nuances that you won’t know until you have done it a for a while. Do your research, check out terrylove.com it’s a good plumbing forum.
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hijlehhw
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2020 07:56am
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I'm at this point in my cabin build, rough plumbing and electrical. I've found quite a few helpful tips on Youtube, for pretty much everything, there are multiple videos showing you how to do pretty much anything you can imagine. Im fairly confident I could perform open heart surgery on my dog with enough time watching youtube vids. There are several quality videos showing how to set up your well pump, pressure tank etc.
The only confusing thing with plumbing that I have found is if your local code follows the uniform plumbing code or the international plumbing code UPC vs IPC and that only changes the size of your drains from 1.5" to 2" and many allow either. Size your stack right and determine how many DWU each fixture counts for. On smaller cabins its pretty easy as there isnt much going on, I only have one bathroom unit, LAV, WC and tub...and a kitchen sink, after inspection I might add a washer/dryer or basement bathroom, but either way its pretty simple.
As far as water lines go, I was planning on making my own PEX manifold and designing it to drain but I recently bought a MANABLOC from Amazon, it actually cost the same or slightly less than what it would cost me to build my own manifold and certainly looks much neater. It doesn't get any simpler than that, mount the block in the utility room and run your 3/4" water lines from the pressure tank to the water heater and to the block for cold water, 3/4" from water heater back to the Manabloc and then run your 1/2" lines from the block to all your locations, its about the easiest thing you'll do on your cabin and the PEX is cheap, also if you buy the contractor size packages of pinch clips they are relatively cheap also. I think I have a couple hundred bucks into the PEX system in the cabin and that includes the Manabloc at around $150.
Here is the link: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008J33LJC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UT F8&psc=1
You'll also need a couple fittings to go from the PEX to the manabloc: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PCJT22G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UT F8&psc=1
Easy as pie, ask if you have any other questions and I can tell you what I did or have found out, this is my first total project form ground up also so I've been learning a lot.
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Mike0311
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# Posted: 8 Sep 2020 07:55pm
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I just read your reply to the plumbing question above. I understand the 1/4 inch per foot slope, but there is a point where the toilet drain from the 2nd floor is going to drop vertically straight down to the first floor. So is there a rule on how far the toilet waste must run horizontally before it drops off to the ground?
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hijlehhw
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2020 07:49am
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I dont know for sure, Im not a plumber, I would check with a local plumber or the code, or ask inspector. I ended up plumbing everything I could and then hiring a plumber to finish up the last little bit I needed a hand on, for a day.
Finally got the electrical, plumbing, HVAC all in, insulation is done and sheetrock should be going in next week, anxious to get the sheetrock done so I can turn the heat on, it was 30F this morning! Then just finish work inside and smooth sailing from there on out.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2020 08:11am
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I second PEX, get the red and blue to make things easier. The fittings are a little pricey, get the crimp on, dont do all shark bite push on. As for your drains, all turns are done in sweepers. Sweepers are the much softer turns vs the sharp right angle which can work fine for a vent, but not a drain and even then, a vent with sweepers is easier to snake if you ever had to for whatever reason.
Lots of good books on plumbing, but you are not looking for the DIY repairs around the house or just the code, you want new rough in, but the code would be helpful too. I did a quick amazon and seen plenty just for you.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2020 09:38am
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Quoting: Mike0311 I understand the 1/4 inch per foot slope, but there is a point where the toilet drain from the 2nd floor is going to drop vertically straight down to the first floor. So is there a rule on how far the toilet waste must run horizontally before it drops off to the ground?
No plumber here either but put a lot of community main sewer line in the ground. We usually maintained roughly 1/4" per foot slope as well but where the ground sloped to where the pipe was getting too shallow - we maintained at least 4' of cover - we would put in a drop manhole. The main pipe would continue on straight to and through the side of the manhole to give us access for cleaning, but about 10' back we would insert a 45* down pipe to a sweeping 45* to the bottom of the manhole which (I'm not going to do the math... a guess) now was around 8' deep. The flow coming down the mainline hit the 45*, drops 4' and flows across the manhole into the continuing line now at 8'.
I have seen this done on residential sewer lines as well, without the manhole but with cleanouts.
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RiverCabin
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# Posted: 10 Sep 2020 12:59pm
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech I second PEX, get the red and blue to make things easier. The fittings are a little pricey, get the crimp on, dont do all shark bite push on.
Please pay attention to this. The "Sharkbite" or "Gatorbite" fittings are generally garbage. Although Pex is not freeze proof, it will withstand a bit of freezing. If it freezes, I practically guarantee upon thawing it will leak around any push on fitting. Crimp fittings are the way to go and as an added benefit they are cheaper. Just be sure to get a good brimping tool. I started using pex on projects over a decade ago and I think my too with mandrels for 1/2, 3/4, and 1 inch was around $100. Dozens of jobs later it still works great. Also, if the tool does not come with one, get a gauge. That is to make sure your crimp is sufficient.
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sandywilliam
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# Posted: 7 Mar 2022 10:19am - Edited by: sandywilliam
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Greetings. Of course, hiring a specialist for such a complicated task would be the best solution. But if you want to save money, you have to work very hard. To be honest, I haven't had any experience with studor-type vents. When designing mine, I used traditional vents through the roof. I can tell you one site about plumbing. Generally, it's designed for the professional training for people. Must complete a 4-5 year apprenticeship program. But you can try to find information there for the residential level. This site is https://www.howtobecomeaplumber.org/journeyman-plumber/. I realize I'm late responding to this thread, but I hope I've helped someone.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 7 Mar 2022 10:41am
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You have some good suggestions already!
If you are going to use PEX, then I would suggest you look into Surlok connectors. They are an alternative to copper pinch rings. The advantages is they are stronger, more corrosion resistant, can be removed with out cutting and one tool can do multiple sizes. They are slightly more expensive than the copper rings, but the tool is cheaper.
Many RV and boat manufacturers prefer them for the reasons above.
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Tim_Ohio
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2022 09:12am
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We just had a vintage house re-piped with PEX. All of the galvanized piping was removed and replaced with PEX from the basement to the second floor. The professional company we used, preferred stainless steel clamp rings, which fall under the ASTM F2098 standard, and brass inserts. I noticed they had a very large plastic, slotted box of all of the various sizes, orientation and types. They also plumbed all main lines with the 3/4 inch equivalent, then branched off to each area with the 1/2" equivalent. When I asked about a manifold system, they said it was overpriced to do that and it also was something they preferred not to do. I respected their decision. I got the feeling the owner knew his stuff, since he attended national plumbing symposiums annually to keep up on what works best in the industry. So far, we have had no problems with it and it's been installed about 3 months. My only complaints involved how it was snaked around and into an anchored position across the ceiling rather than using a 90 degree insert to stay close to the ceiling or wall.
I guess I'm a neat freak. Also, we had them do all of the visible stub outs in copper, such as where it came out for a toilet. Seeing blue PEX was not desirable.
Tim_Ohio
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Tim_Ohio
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2022 09:26am
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Oh, one other thing. They also brought long, straight sections of PEX. I guess there are different grades of it and they preferred what is not coiled. When my wife said she wanted to replace fixtures and other things in her bathroom, they told her avoid the home centers and go directly to the plumbing supply facilities. They felt the quality of what is purchased for plumbing applications is higher than from the home center hardware stores.
Tim_Ohio
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jul 2022 11:18am
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...and LoperVil appears to be a spammer
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travellerw
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# Posted: 20 Jul 2022 10:33am
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Quoting: Tim_Ohio My only complaints involved how it was snaked around and into an anchored position across the ceiling rather than using a 90 degree insert to stay close to the ceiling or wall.
Sounds like they followed code. The goal is to keep it a few inches away from any flat surfaces that could have a screws put through in the future. This includes a basement ceiling as someone upstairs could put a screw through the floor (happens all the time when people try and stop squeaks). Also the goal is to use a few fittings as possible since each fitting is a restriction and reduces flow. The less fittings used, the less restricted the flow will be! If you have the room to go around a corner without using a fitting, then that is the correct way (as long as there is no risk of a kink).
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