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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 3 Dec 2019 08:59am
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Our paperwork is just polishing up (Titles and final signatures) for a 1/4 acre in Dawson Township (Unincorporated) Manitoulin island.
The Plot adjoining ours (Well not even a plot, the fellow actually built his cabin on public lands, there must be a story there) had a Hydro connection at one time, which the 220V has been cut the Transformer is about 200m down the road on a pole in front of another cabin on the other side of the road.
There still is a Bell Telephone line travelling to the other side of the road for connection to bell.
I am wondering if anyone knows the drill in getting the pole reconnected?
I have the Serial number tag from the pole so I can actually identify it to the provider (Assume Hydro one) but not sure what to do next other than dive into automated attendant hell with Hydro one.
Has anyone gone down this path?
Thanx
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old243
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2019 09:29am
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You will have to deal with hydro one at some point. Are you intending to build on your new property? Perhaps contact a local electrical contractor, he will know the ropes locally. I would guess that the pole service on another property, will be of no use to you. Is there a public road past your property, or is it a private lane. This will have a bearing on how it is handled. Good luck old243
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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2019 09:43am
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Yes we will build (2022 best guess)
From what I have googled so far is that Hydro one will cover up to 90m from their last pole/transformer to your plot - After that it up to you.
The pole close buy is about 30m from our plot. The feed that is/was on the pole was Liquitight to the decommissioned meter on the old cabin on public land.
Yes - The plot is off of a public road (Hwy#540) and is current road width + old road allowance (80 foot wide) then our plot. For the old pole it is at the edge of the current road and the edge of the 80' road allowance.
I should have brought a multy meter last trip to see if the Phone box was wet looped.
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old243
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2019 09:46am
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One other thing . Remember these hydro workers are just doing their jobs, and have a lot of rules to follow. Treat them right , ask lots of questions , Know all about your property. Property lines , your intentions. Don't get off on the wrong foot. I worked in the utility field for 36 years , have heard and seen it all. old243
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2019 01:37am - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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A heads up for you.
Ontario is going to raise the seasonal residents hydro rates soon. It’s going up crazy high. Definitely look into this. IDK WTH they are thinking. Are they trying to get rid of the remaining seasonals. I suppose we don’t pump enough $ into the economy. When we go to Gore Bay once a month we spend between $300-$500 depending upon our needs.
Even though we are off grid this makes me angry. It’s just not fair.
The West End loses power quite frequently.
You will be paying hydro bills just to stay connected when you are not there.
An example: A acquaintances husband died. His man cave was the garage. Even though she did not use the power in the detached garage she was being charged $55! Per month just to be connected. She had them come out and cut the power off. This was about three years ago. I’m sure the rates have gone up since then.
We are off grid. The power lines are too far. I’m thankful that I’m not paying a outrageous hydro bill every month for basically nothing.
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Kamn
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2019 09:43am
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Just as a side note, you are not required to have Hydro run the wiring to your cottage/cabin, you can hire someone to trench and drop an underground line in for you and then have Hydro hook you up to the transformer. It will probably be cheaper that way.
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old243
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2019 11:44am
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You need to get a layout from hydro 1. Once you know what is required. Then you can decide, how you want to proceed. You say there is a transformer 200 meters away. Likely 2 spans of primary line and another transformer , as well as possible pole replacements , depending on age ,condition and height, may be required. Whether hydro 1 will let an approved contractor build the line extension, since it is on public property. I am not sure. Once you are on your own property an approved contractor can definitely do the work. May sound complicated, but that is usually the way it is done. Hope this helps old243
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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2019 03:01pm
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Thanx for the extra info
On the higher connection rates, I was aware and always assumed a 30 to 50 buck a month connection fee - Even down in Kitchener our connection and transmission portion is sneaking up to 30%.
I am toying with 2 to 4Kwh/ setup with 24V LiFePO4's but wanted to get a gauge of connection to the grid to run an apples to apples comparison. Our property in Nicaragua has similar power questions so
From your experience what is the dropout rate? One day in the winter - 3 or 4 days a year or more?
Our Plot in Nicaragua loses power at least 70 days a year and power bounces from 75V to 130V and 55hz to 65hz like nothing so the choice for solar there is both for uptime and device preservation. Well not our plot - Our plot does not have Hydro yet, but my Brother In Laws plot has at least 2 days a week with 4 hrs or more without juice and we would be on the same transformer. [img=null]null[/img]
Funny on the Manitoulin planning documents (96-01) and solar - One section limits the height of a church spire to 7.5 m, and the same section states that the height of a "Solar collection tower" is unregulated.
The Lawyer tells us that they think the 1974 planning zoning writ (3 pages) attached to the title is more in line with our plot and not the 100+ page Manitoulin planning document. But the Manitoulin planning doc seems in line with what we want to do so we won't rock the boat.
For the connection of hydro to the property sans a primary structure, it had not even occurred to me. On first thought (e.g. right now) I am thinking it may be a real hassle - But they do hook up construction trailers and the like for builds - maybe the same is possible for our plot - Something like a 10x10 shed for tools and connections. Need to look that up.
In the end, we do not need a lot of power - Fridge / Freezer and _possibly_ AC can all be done with 24V compressors these days (Either bought new or retrofit of a 24V compressor to older equipment) Lights - Internet and some entertainment pieces blah blah blah.
Our max load would be 2.0 ishKW/h without A/C - 3.5 ish KW/h with.
On the pole itself, it still has an unoxidized sheen to the wood and the black coating for below-grade appears intact. Just a Guess would put it at less than 30yrs old but I am no expert by any means.
I guess I will just google into Hydro one and get a gauge so I can start planning while the snow flies.
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Bancroft bound
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2019 05:59pm
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Follow old 243's advice. Call Hydro One and get an ADET to let you know exactly what you will need. No second or third hand advise you'll get here. Just call !
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bill_bly_ca
Member
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2019 06:12pm
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Bancroft bound
OK - Will do - What does the acronym ADET spell out?
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 6 Dec 2019 10:29pm
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ur max load would be 2.0 ishKW/h without A/C - 3.5 ish KW/h with
Is this your daily?
Build a solar system. $5k.
I would go 48v. LifePo isn't bad.
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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 7 Dec 2019 08:11am
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Yes - with margin
Fridge/freezer 0.7
TV /computer/radios/internet 0.4
Lights 0.09
Fans 0.09
Toss in misc (Tool batteries, phones etc etc) for another 0.4
Real tools (Table saws, mitre saws, 1/2" drills, compressors et al) to build the cabin were always planned for a gas generator during the build and probably indefinatly if we go solar.
Typing out loud it seems more likely that tying to the grid may not be necessary - Anyways will still get the price to connect to a pole to make sure
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2019 12:10am
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They are constantly upgrading or doing work on the hydro than there is weather, trees etc... I can’t give you a accurate number because I’m off grid.
Maybe ask someone on grid next time you are up on the West End. BTW the West End always has to wait longer for everything.
Once again I’m not part of any of it because I’m back in the bush and stay there until I really need food or propane.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2019 12:23am - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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Oh wow. Are you going to build a shed first?
No can do unless you are going to build your primary structure within six months or so. I don’t remember exactly because it’s been awhile since we asked that question.
So every year we had to drag our camping gear back and forth over the border.
No travel trailers or junk cars, trucks etc.. are allowed anymore either. It’s a new ordinance. With a fine of $25,000 per offense.
Last year Gore Bay with Dawson and Robinson Twp got together in May before the leaf cover and had a satellite photo taken so they could find the offenders.
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Bancroft bound
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# Posted: 8 Dec 2019 11:01am
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Area Distribution Engineering Technician. Used to be customer service rep. They will come out and let you know what you will need to connect to the grid.
Creeky makes a good point too.
Get all your numbers together to make an informed decision.
Reliability is a major focus now But, you can't control Mother Nature!!
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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 9 Dec 2019 06:01pm - Edited by: bill_bly_ca
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Quoting: silverwaterlady Oh wow. Are you going to build a shed first? No can do unless you are going to build your primary structure within six months or so. I don’t remember exactly because it’s been awhile since we asked that question.
No just thinking about it - Probably not.
Don't want to rock the boat, just a nice quiet place 120' off of 540.
Funny you mention the old cars trailers and the like
The fellow on the public land next to us has a late 60's Beatle silently rusting away and the 2nd plot the fellow we bought ours from, 200' over, has an old school portable, a camp trailer and two of the "Most interesting wood structures I have ever seen" for human habitation.
The agent told us how trailers are a no-no now on the west end but a really nice, recent model, 32' or longer is set up on the shore of Loon Lake. Looks like it has been there less than a year.
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LoonWhisperer
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2019 05:38pm - Edited by: LoonWhisperer
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Quoting: bill_bly_ca The agent told us how trailers are a no-no now on the west end but a really nice, recent model, 32' or longer is set up on the shore of Loon Lake. Looks like it has been there less than a year.
Interesting. We bought a new travel trailer last year with the idea of using it at a recreational property and it was real eye opening just how many townships have a zero tolerance policy for them. Fortunately we found a nice 3 acre parcel with lake view where we are allowed to use the trailer for 30 days per year. Will use it in conjunction with the cabin we plan to renovate. We are about 30 minutes south of North Bay. Best of luck!
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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2019 06:09pm - Edited by: bill_bly_ca
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So talking to the county clerk - (Well clerk for the island)
Manitoulin island townships that are incorporated - Trailers are permitted after building permit issued for up to 2 years with $300 fee per year. Must be removed once completed build.
Unincorporated (Dawson and Robinson) are allowed up to 3 years after a plan is approved (As I understand it is building permit "Light") but the trailer has to be removed 60 days after the building(s) are complete.
Other unincorporated townships (Portions of Pery sound, Unincorporated Sudbury like Gogama, places around Cochran or Hearst have no regulations )
That being said there were a heck of a lot of trailers in plain view everywhere - One in the town of Meldrum bay itself was well appointed with a framed roof and wood-clad travel trailer of an old vintage but visually appealing - I am thinking it is the 1965 thunder chief with faded cladding and engine blocks in the front yard and those that look appealing and well kept are left alone - But I have only spent all of 3/4 of a day on that part of the island and can say for a fact, just the optics
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2019 11:49pm - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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Did you go to the municipal building in Gore Bay and ask them?
There was a notice in The Recorder this summer. That’s how we found out and ALL the information I gave you came straight from the newspaper notice and the two people working at The Manitoulin Planning Board in Gore Bay.
You can do whatever you want. But if you do place a trailer there and don’t get the two warning letters about removing the trailer because you are in Honduras expect a $25,000 fine.
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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2019 10:14am - Edited by: bill_bly_ca
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I spoke to a fellow at the planning board, that is where I got the context of a trailer in Dawson.
The other trailer information (Incorporated township) I got from a discussion with folks in Gore Bay office on a lot on Checkerboard lane, south of gore bay, we were looking at that time. (August 2019)
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bill_bly_ca
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2019 01:24pm
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Actually I will put the refering section of 96-01 - Specific to Dawson.
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Temporary Uses Permitted
20. A temporary sleeping and eating quarter, tool shed, scaffold or other building or structure incidental to the construction of a building or structure permitted by this Order may be maintained until the construction is completed or has been discontinued for sixty consecutive days. (Amended by Ontario Regulation 158/96 - Deeming Housekeeping)
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The fellow mentioned that a) A trailer fits the definition and B) 3 yrs was the limit - I have not seen a specific reference to 3 years in 96-01 specifically though
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