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ICC
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2018 01:24pm
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I'm just trying to help people who contribute to threads here as well as those who just lurk learn. .....I'm not an engineer or code expert either.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2018 02:46pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Sometimes we Canadians prefer to compromise and split the difference down the middle. 
Roof Framing Suggestions, Canadian guidelines “...Our associate, Al Carson points out that†“Putting the horizontal support or collar tie (in Canada) at the "midpoint" of the rafter length makes sense, since locating the collar tie or "rafter tie" at any point other than the middle of the rafter's length will fail to minimize the rafter span.†... “Both the CMHC guide and other expert sources offer other approaches to supporting rafters in pitched roofs, including struts nailed between the rafter side and a load-bearing partition below.†... https://inspectapedia.com/structure/Roof_Framing_Specifications_Canada.php
Without actually looking, I believe both of our 1950s cabins (24’x24’ and 24’x30’ gable ends with ridge boards and maybe just 2x4 rafters on both) have collar ties at half the height of the peak and where the meet the rafter there are vertical braces going straight down to the rafter ties below. The collar ties are placed at every 2nd or 3rd pair of rafters.
The first time I ever actually looked to see how it was made I remember thinking that it all looked really flimsy to me. ...but they’ve held up very well through many decades so far.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2018 04:57pm
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Quoting: KinAlberta The first time I ever actually looked to see how it was made I remember thinking that it all looked really flimsy to me. ...but they’ve held up very well through many decades so far
Haha, yep....as a 'real builder' in today's world. I often see houses that we are remodeling from the early 1900's that are severely under-built (by our modern standards)
A recent project was from 1913 and the ceiling joists in the living room/dining room were just old 2 x 4's.....spanning 20+ feet! Yes they were sagging a bit but have done the job so far....even with heavy plaster on them! Amazing....not saying that we should build like this nowadays, we know so much more and it doesn't take that much extra time or materials to do it better....
PS - Even though the ceiling joists were substandard, the floor substructure was pretty beefy, and the roof was supported with ties, kickers and handbuilt mini-trusses. The finish carpentry was insane...
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Borrego
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2018 04:59pm
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Quoting: ICC I'm not an engineer or code expert either.
Yeah, but you've obviously built a thing or two......your advice is always pretty solid.....that's worth more. Some of the engineers I've worked with are pathetic...
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ICC
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2018 06:44pm - Edited by: ICC
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KinAlberta, That is an interesting article. I've never seen collar ties referred to as a member to keep rafters from sagging. I've always seen the rafters themselves upsized to take the expected load according to the US tables or the AWC calculator. There are some differences between Canadian and US codes, not usually too different.
Borrego, yes I have been involved in construction since the late 1960's. Started with heavy equipment earth moving, then building new houses, remodeling old ones. The oldest being from the 1860's. I like the old ones with some character.
Anyhow, Srollins, good luck, I hope you plan this out before cutting wood. I won't be around over the weekend. Have to pickup a new to me, used but newly rebuilt '85 PA-18 Super Cub.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 8 Jun 2018 10:10pm
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Quoting: ICC Anyhow, Srollins, good luck, I hope you
Yes Srollins, good luck, I also hope you get this figgered out right before you start...no point in doing it wrong....or twice.....
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 9 Jun 2018 11:14am - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Take your time to get what you want - and need - and will love to spend your time in.
Having, it now seems like forever*, lived with supremely boring, flat, square edged, drywalled, painted, 8’ ceilings has left me yearning for a chance to have a raised, vaulted, cathedral, open beam or just near any variation from my dull as could be life-in-a-box. (I even spent decades working in cubicals and so hate small boxed in privacy fenced yards. Step out of a box into another box. Not for me. Yawn...)
That said, at this stage in my life I’d go to great lengths to at least create a ‘cabin feel’ at my get-away place. But a cabin that lets in lots of light. Not a dark dreary prairie sod house feel.
That said, I’m incredibly lucky to have inherited my father’s and uncle’s constructions. Two depression-era influenced and both utilitarian, practical minded men (both technical, navy, engineering guys). So my sibling and I have two nice knotty pine cabins - with far greater unrealized potential. Diminished by, of course those boring staple up, pressed cardboard tiles, painted stark white of course).
It’s a bit like finishing off a gold ring engagement ring with a plastic bead.
* raised in a simple-cove-corniced plaster 8-footer. Just that minor little variation was wonderful.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 11 Jun 2018 12:44pm
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So Srollins, please let us know how it came out over the weekend...curious to know which route you took?
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