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caducus
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 08:00am
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I'm putting in a sliding glass door that opens onto a deck. The interior floor of the cabin is some unused laminate I got a good deal on, which installs right on top of my 3/4" subfloor.
Do I install the floor before doing my door (two of them actually), and install the door and its threshold on top of that? Or do I install the door, then the floor?
I haven't been able to find an answer anywhere. Most stuff deals with replacement construction and anything new assumes that each trade will work in whatever order they work in.
IF the door goes on top of the floor, does that mean I flash the entry over the floor as well and build a sill pan type thing? Obviously I'd flash the subfloor-- can't have water getting into that plywood. But it seems like the gap between the floor and subfloor would need to be sealed as well.
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Hog_Camp
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 09:12am
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I think I would put the floor down first if I could protect it from rain until I got the door in. Seal the edges of the laminate with silicon caulk as well as doing any flashing. You will probably need to put some blocking under the threshold to raise the bottom of the threshold up to the top of the finished floor - remember that it is very important for the laminate floor to float to allow expansion and it needs a good 1/4 inch clearance on all sides or it may buckle.
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caducus
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 09:31am
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Can you clarify what you mean by "raise the threshold the floor height?"
If I do the floor first, I'm imagining the flooring going all the way through the door frame, where the entirety of the door assembly is resting on the floor. This would set the threshold right on top of the floor. But it sounds like maybe that shouldn't be the case.
I haven't installed a door before, so sorry if this doesn't make as much sense as it should.
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ICC
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 09:31am
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Subfloor, then door frames/doors, windows, with flashing.
Finish flooring is installed after doors and windows are installed. Think carpet for a sec, you would not put that in and then install the door and flashing.
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caducus
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 09:36am
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I certainly get that with carpet.
I don't have the door assembly sitting in front of me. Can anyone explain how the flooring goes in after? Is there a removable threshold you take off and then install back over the flooring to cover the edge?
Do I need to measure the flooring height ahead of time and ensure the door is installed high enough to clear it, or do door thresholds/trim take that into account?
On that last question it would seem that I would need to add the flooring height into my framing, to make sure the rough openings are high enough to account for raising the door to clear the floor, if indeed that's what I need to do.
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Hog_Camp
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 10:05am - Edited by: Hog_Camp
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I agree with ICC on the sequence; I guess what I was trying to say is that you need to take into consideration the height of the finished floor and plan some way of hiding the edge of the laminate as part of the door installation process.
The laminate can not go all the way through the door frame since that would pin the laminate down at that point. It needs to be under the threshold (or a separate piece of trim) to hide the rough edge, but it needs to be free to move as it expands and contracts. Unless the threshold is designed with a way to slip the laminate under the inside edge, the easiest way to do that is to raise the whole door assembly a little bit to allow clearance for the laminate.
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Hog_Camp
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 10:22am
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I should also mention that I've only put laminate in as a retrofit...for all I know modern door assemblies might take the finished floor clearances into account. I just would not count on
it with out taking a good look at the situation and materials on hand!
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Borrego
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 11:01am - Edited by: Borrego
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You could install doors over certain types of flooring, but in this case, the exterior door goes in first, then you install floor right up to it, leave a small gap (for expansion) then a piece of trim molding covers this gap.
You're going to put some sort of underlayment down, right? The more expensive the better with underlayment....
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caducus
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 01:26pm
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Makes sense. So ideally I need to look at the door ahead of time and try to see how it installs with floors. Maybe it does so in a way that accommodates various floor thicknesses.
But more likely I need to take my floor height into account and shim up the door to allow for the floor to slip under later.
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caducus
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 01:27pm
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Borrego, you have any underlayment to recommend?
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Borrego
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 03:19pm
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Quoting: caducus So ideally I need to look at the door ahead of time and try to see how it installs with floors. Maybe it does so in a way that accommodates various floor thicknesses. But more likely I need to take my floor height into account and shim up the door to allow for the floor to slip under later.
No, you just need to install the door...period. Put down some flashing and silicone it good. The floor will work with it....
Something like this, I've used it before. https://www.lumberliquidators.com/ll/c/Premium-Underlayment-Sq-Ft-BELLAWOOD-BELLAPREM /10023615?Wt.ps_id=PS_google_1023&cagpspn=pla&CAWELAID=1925959333&CAAGID=42480250059& CATCI=pla-294930372950&CATARGETID=420003430000674489&cadevice=c&gclid=CjwKCAjw_47YBRB xEiwAYuKdw9b20CG_cWBh2IxHsq9Q-vQclLYD7aIlPhjepC4iIUa3y-XPTRcJuhoCJNwQAvD_BwE
You can find similar at the big box stores....just don't cheap out on this....
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caducus
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 04:47pm
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Cool. What's the reason to not cheap out? Does it compress unevenly out over time?
Is that trim pictured in your post above a piece that goes with the flooring? I've seen those stacked up in the Pergo aisle at Home Depot. Or is it wood, like the trim I'm using around the door?
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ICC
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 06:47pm
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An exterior door threshold is sealed to the subflooring, usually with silcone, to make it weatherproof. I've never had an issue with a floor or carpet that was too thick. The threshold does require a little step over, but minor.
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rockies
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# Posted: 22 May 2018 07:48pm
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You should NOT seal the bottom of the door threshold to the subfloor, you should use a sill pan under the door threshold.
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/articles/dept/musings/sill-pans-exterior-doors
http://jamsill.com/
For the same reason that windows leak without a sloped sill pan draining water to the exterior there should definitely be a sill pan under an exterior door. This will prevent water from wicking in under the threshold and getting into the wall assembly.
As to the laminate floor, this video may help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUTYpKiRT1Y
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 23 May 2018 09:07am - Edited by: KinAlberta
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It was also mentioned that laminate needs room for expansion. I’m not sure if it is ever run even slightly under a door.
Another thing about some laminates is that they will swell up if water gets on them, so if a laminate were to run under a sill and then swell, it might lift the sill and screw up the door’s fit.
Don’t most installers just put a bit of baseboard over any gap between the final flooring and the sill?
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ICC
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# Posted: 23 May 2018 10:12am
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The OP was--- Quoting: caducus Do I install the floor before doing my door (two of them actually), and install the door and its threshold on top of that? Or do I install the door, then the floor?
The correct answer is the door frame with threshold is always installed on the subflooring. Then whatever finish flooring (carpet, laminate with the foam underlay, hardwood, vinyl, ceramic tile, etc etc) is installed when everything else is done.
Laminate floors need to float. They are not installed butt tight against any walls so it makes a whole lot of sense they would never be installed under a door threshold.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 23 May 2018 10:51am
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Quoting: ICC Laminate floors need to float. They are not installed butt tight against any walls so it makes a whole lot of sense they would never be installed under a door threshold
This ^^^^
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