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gregpalombo
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 06:49am
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Hello folks. I am doing preliminary drawing and research for building a cabin and the A-frame seems to top contender. I ran into some A-frame hate the other day and thought I would start a thread.
Please express your opinions about the A-frame in any capacity whether it be the cost to build, impractical/practical functional design (usage of space, insulation, etc...), aesthetics, and so on. Any and all opinions welcome.
The anticipated locations is in the outskirts of Missoula Montana.
Thanks for your time. Greg.
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Bret
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 07:09am
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Just my opinion.
Quaint on the outside, but the inside not so much.
Lots of wasted space.
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gregpalombo
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 07:27am
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So wasted space in relations to the amount timber (or framing material) you buy. Could you can get more usable/livable square footage from the same amount of framing material if using a different structure design? Thanks for your input. Greg.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 08:01am
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Great for snow load if that is an issue in your area, but tough to heat due to the height, unless you put in a ceiling to lower the internal space
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Gary O
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 08:30am
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Great for snow load
gorgeous
relatively easy to build
space issues top and bottom;
the heat rising to the top, to me, is not so much an issue
I mean, that area gets tiny pretty fast
Now, the bottom area, never could figger what to do with that other than jamb soft goods and such there...for the mice to be comfy
so, I built 4' pony walls
end of problem
our build is here under Our Tiny Cabin Experience (never could figger how to do a link)
Lotsa bunny trails on that thread but you'll get the gist...for a tiny one
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Gary O
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 08:35am
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oh, and welcome, btw
it's a fun place
and we're not all crazy here...probably
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Borrego
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 10:08am
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Although I did help build one when I was a kid (in the Boy Scouts), I've never owned one, but we have stayed in a few in our mountain areas while on a vacation weekend. I agree with the wasted space, and they always feel cramped... stairs, ladders, headroom issues......nope.....
Just seems like there are so many other better ways to build a house, the only true advantage to an A frame is the snow load and you can get that easy just by raising your pitch. Even if they 'might' use less wood (?) they must be the biggest wasters of wood there is.....
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 11:13am - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Around here, I have yet to see an A-frame I like. Until recently my thinking on them was that they always look cheap and junky and like failed DIY projects.
However I was looking at cabin and chalet photos and designs and came across an old magazine photo of an A-frame and it was beautiful. One of those moments when you realize that what you always assumed to be true could be totally wrong.
So I think I can safely say that I wouldn’t touch 90% of the A-frames out there and none of the ones around here.
To me there are some key design characteristics/ feature that are “transformative†(I hate that word by the way).
1) Glass, glass, glass - the windows must go right to the peak - that’s the whole point of that point - that’s why they look most appropriate in the mountains - to give a great vertical view
2) I think size matters. The structure needs to be quite late to be suitably spacious looking inside and to not look like a hut in the woods.
3) you can’t put conventional structure or build a square garage or shed next to an A-frame. It just look awkward and again dramatically cheapened.
Basically, people around here cheap’d out and with this type of design cutting corners absolutely destroys the value.
Scroll down this link - 4 drawings at the bottom. The first and last look good, the 2nd and 3rd not so nice:
http://www.bigpoint.com/risingcities/board/threads/mcm-area-or-mistery-buildings-new- season.38496/
Also nice:
http://luneblog.com/blog/2012/12/70s-style-mountain-house.html
The Mania for A-Frames | Restoration & Design for the Vintage House | Old House Online
https://www.oldhouseonline.com/.amp/articles/the-mania-for-a-frames
Bring back the real A-frame, "the right shape at the right time"
By Lloyd Alter
https://www.treehugger.com/green-architecture/bring-back-real-frame-right-shape-right -time.html
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Cowracer
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 05:31pm - Edited by: Cowracer
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I have a gambrel roof, which means my upstairs does not have plumb walls, but they are on an angle. Maybe not a severe as an A-Frame, but I'm here to tell you, it can be a PITA to live with.
#1 is you cannot put up any shelves or pictures in an easy way. You always have to modify them.
#2 you cannot have bookcases, or tall dresser without having them feet away from the wall at the bottom.
#3 the inward sloping wall can impart a small sense of claustrophobia in susceptible people. I really makes you feel like the walls are closing in on you.
#4 if you do somethign like T&G or shiplap on the walls (or anything with a horizontal pattern) you will NEVER get the seams to line up right between the tilted side walls and the plumb front and rear walls.
Tim
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fiftyfifty
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 05:36pm
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One thing I do like about them is that they are very different than a regular home. They give off a special vacation feel. No, they are not practical. But they do not have to be unless you plan to retire there.
I agree with the advice to use lots of windows. Before we built our cabin, we frequently rented an A-frame in the area. One end had glass all the way up, and that area was gorgeous. The other side, under the loft, had next to no windows and was a depressing cave.
I would advise renting some A-frames to try out if you haven't already.
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gregpalombo
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 06:22pm
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Thanks you everyone for your welcomes and advice. The intended use for the house will be a permanent residence. Seems like the A-frame poses a lot of issues and short comings when comes to living in and furnishing. They are beautiful structures that and have a "backcountry/off grid" romanticism to them. Thank you all for your advice.
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rockies
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 08:14pm
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There's a reason why most of the plans and pictures showing A frames are from the 1950's and 60's.
The biggest problem is putting in cabinetry. How do you mount things to the side walls? Also, the area near the side walls that's lower than 5 feet high is basically only good for built-in storage.
This is the only really nice A frame design I've seen (you don't need to include so much glass). It gives you the basic A shape but gives you so much more potential for storage and cabinetry.
https://www.trendir.com/modern-glass-house-addition-by-dmva-architecten/
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Borrego
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 08:56pm
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Once again, why an A frame? They have literally no benefits other than a 'rustic or vacation look'....
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 10:27pm
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They all appear like tunnels to me; natural light at the ends only. Not even very useful as a machine shed as you can't get close enough to the sides. As a few others have said they are a pita to even hang a picture let alone cabinets. A hassle to safely install a wood burner chimney too. If you have lots of snow you end up with it piled close to the lower wall; or is it the roof? If you have lots of snow you can design a roof to hold any amount.
I have seen one large A frame that has an almost very usable design. It makes use of dormer like side rooms; also a-framed with the ends providing the windows for those two rooms. Because it is a large building it has vertical interior walls along the main house long walls. The space between them and the sloped exterior wall-roof provides unconditioned space along one side and conditioned space along the other side. It is unusual.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 8 Mar 2018 11:14pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Sounds like size matters - hugely. Size and therefore height to increase the slope.
Too small and it’s replicating the issues of the upstairs in a storey-and-a-half house.
With enough breadth however, a sloping wall wouldn’t be a big problem. Furniture wouldn’t be placed up against the wall but out from it. Tall cabinets would separate the front from the back and not be placed against the side walls... A kitchen could have a hallway between it and the outside wall.
Lastly, in looking at photos via google I think the upper portion should always be open beam / cathedral space and not single storey living space. So a one floor cabin would be two+ storeys high, a two storey would be three+ storeys high. (Basically, who loved the old style tents? Why build one?)
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gregpalombo
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 06:16am
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You all make very convincing points. The A-frame seems quite impractical for a long list of reasons and there really in no real functional advantages other than snow load which can be easily remedied but adjusting conventional roof pitches. It is good to hear all these down sides before I move forward with more specific drawings and continue to waste my time. I think I have been convinced to pursue other home styles for they will be much more utilitarian. Again thank you guys for your time and responses.
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rockies
Member
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# Posted: 9 Mar 2018 07:56pm
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The one cabin I posted is more usable since all the rooms needing cabinetry could be built in the straight walled addition. The other rooms like the living room, entrance and bedroom could be in the A frame section but you still wind up with difficult areas to use along the sides.
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gregpalombo
Member
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# Posted: 10 Mar 2018 06:52pm
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I agree that one seemed quite open and spacious. Also allows cabinets and furniture etc.. to easily fit.
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2018 09:04am
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I have seen some very well designed & built A-Frames and when thoroughly considered and designed while addressing the peculiarities of the type of structure, it can work very well. It's a design style which certainly has several quirks but knowing them in advance and designing accordingly can resolve more. Things like cabinetry, counters and such can be resolved fairly simply if planned for.
I have also seen some real hacks and boy, you can tell that not much thought & planning occurred for all the quirks.
The best ones though were not "A" from the ground up, they were "platformed" up on piers or had 4' to 6' walls (semi basement) and then up.
IF you are considering energy efficiency, most useable space per square foot then, believe it or not a Round House (which people have used for more than 7,000 years) may be worth consideration... Ohh yes, ROUND doesn't fit flat things - not quite ad it is relative to diameter and more plus.
Have a gander:
https://inhabitat.com/why-our-ancestors-built-round-houses-and-why-it-still-makes-sen se-to-build-round-structures-today/
do a google search on "Modern Round Houses" and be prepared for some good viewing and reading. Check out the pictures too.
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ICC
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# Posted: 11 Mar 2018 11:06am
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A guy I know in California built a Dodecagon shaped house. Normal vertical walls; about 10 foot high IIRC. Lots of concrete and steel for the foundation and a special steel ring for where the roof panels meet and frame a skylight dome. Lots of custom stuff. The 12 sides around the perimeter provide flat space for furniture, etc.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 12 Mar 2018 11:00pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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I still like them - but it seems that they need to be done right.
For instance, a lot of things have to come together just to look right from the outside. I like the one sketched here:
https://antiquealterego.com/2012/05/29/vintage-house-plans-french-provincial-french-s plit-level-a-frame-chalet-and-twin-bedroom/
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2018 12:12am - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Note the main floor walls
http://cabinporn.com/post/139919116525/a-frame-on-lofoten-island-laupstad-norway
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2018 10:51am
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Frank Lloyd Wright built in 1900 Chicago for sale (250.000)$
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2018 10:54am
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pic
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ICC
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# Posted: 13 Mar 2018 02:37pm
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I think FLW would turn in his grave if he heard the Foster house referred to in a topic on A-frames. 
That's only for the very wealthy as it is a designated historical landmark. The house also needs a lot of work from what I have read.
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chellaigh
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2018 01:12pm - Edited by: chellaigh
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I know this is a stale thread, but wanted to add my two cents for anyone that stumbles on it looking for more insight.
I grew up in a modified A frame house. The first floor was a "normal" square house, and the second floor was A frame from floor to ceiling.
Things that made it work:
1) The entire front of the house was glass. It had floor-to-ceiling windows on the first floor, and roof-to-roof triangular windows on the second. The view out those windows was spectacular (across a mountain valley) and southern-facing, so they let in a lot of light. Also, because other houses were on the east/west of the house, having all the windows on the south meant you didn't see neighboring houses, just the valley.
2) The house was about 24' wide, so the peak ceiling and useable floor space on the second floor was fairly high.
3) The kitchen and living room were on the first floor, where the walls were square.
4) The left half of the second floor was lofted floor space, while the right half was open to the living room below, creating a really nice cathedral ceiling feeling in the living room.
Things that were hard:
1) You cannot overstate how difficult arranging furniture was with the sloped walls. Even short bookcases and dressers looked weird shoved under there. Honestly, in an A frame, you should not consider any floor area without at least 8' of headroom as usable square footage. It just isn't. When you're walking around in an A frame, your natural inclination will be to stay in the part of the room where the ceiling is 7' or higher--even if you yourself are much shorter.
2) Do not assume you can just tuck beds under the sloped ceiling for a cozy feel. We had a bed arranged like this on the second floor and I thought sleeping in it was very claustrophobic--like being on the top bunk with the ceiling a foot from your face. I hated it. My parents still have a bed in that room, but it's moved more to the middle of the room.
I think the two biggest things you can do to overcome some of the A frame hate people have is to put in as many windows as you can in a way that maximizes light and view, and make the house as wide as possible to maximize the usable floor space. If it were me, I would square off the internal rooms to 8' (or maybe 7') ceilings and kiss the space between the walls and slanted roof goodbye. I know people think this is "wasted" space, but in my view, it's just a horizontal attic you never use. The house I live in now has tons of space between the ceiling and the roof that I have never even been in. It's not much different than that.
Hope that helps any latecomers!
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Schteiny
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# Posted: 17 Jun 2019 10:10pm
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I can't imagine why they are so popular. Just a useless design. Space that you can't use. All the fancy finishes you see in magazines don't improve the awful basic design. Just like trying to polish a turd. But that's just me, YOUR a-frame is just beautiful. 
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