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Srollins
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2016 08:00am
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Hello all, here's one for ya so I live in Md and own 25 acres in West Virginia it's about a 5 hour drive that due to my work schedule can't make often enough. I have an opportunity to get as many free 2x4's as I want , I build schools for a living and used them as temp windows until the actual windows come in, most are at least 8' in length . I obviously have more time here at home so was thinking of grabbing this material and pre-build my cabin walls then transport to WV, thing is I'm worried about the material twisting and bowing , I have a garage to store the walls after nailing them together but it's not temp controlled. I was thinking attaching the sheathing would help keep them straight? Just not sure the effort is worth it, the last thing I want is to spend a whole lot of time building walls and then in a few months find them unusable . Would building the walls and glueing and nailing the crap out of them work? Any ideas out there? What would you all do? Free material is what is driving this I could build all my walls. Ps the cabin has not been started yet spring of next year I will start so the walls would sit for a few months
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sparky30_06
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2016 08:50am
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you can prefab your walls and attach the exterior sheeting to them, only problem is how do you lift and set in place large wall sections once you get out there. You could build them in 4' sections but then you won't have a continues wrap at that point. if it's good kiln dryer lumber you shouldn't get to bad of twisting.
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Srollins
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2016 08:55am
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Hi Sparky, I wouldn't build too large of sections maybe 8 ' and I have a trailer to transport and help to lift into place, any thoughts on leaving the sections after nailed together outside covered up? Garage is kinda packed full, would you lay flat or up on edge?
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2016 11:08am
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I prebuilt all the walls for my cabin (2x6 studs, 20" on centre. single top & bottom plates) and used the Advanced Framing Method. Each was an 8'x8' section and sheathed with 7/16 OSB. Everything nailed together with 3-1/4" nails (love my framing nailer !) It took 3 of us to put everything up in under 2 hours - that wasn't for the lifting as much but more for the aligning pf the panels. Have braces and ties downs handy and NO WIND !!!! A hollow 8' wall section can become a sail in a hurry !
I built my place on a Frost Protected Slab Foundation with Radiant Pex in it, so I attached 2x6-PT to my foundation first all around and then slid the walls onto that perimeter and nailed down. ( I had to make small indents into the wall base plated to accommodate the anchor bolt heads [only 1/2" deep]) The PT Wood was affixed to the concrete with these bolts Hilti 8" Screw Anchors Of course there is a Sill Gasket between the PT Wood & Concrete, never forget the gasket !
Lessons Learned & experience tips:
- Make a jig to ensure that everything is SQUARE & FLUSH.
- Build on flat hard surface (concrete floor is best).
- PUT the Insulation into the ends which will be covered (*1)
- Use GOOD glue like LePages PL Premium on your corners and ends.
- Use Galvanised Nails on the bottom plate and the bottom section of the sheathing (*2)
- Staple the sill gasket to the base plate before installation, eliminates a LOT of "Drunken Sailor Talk".
- Use a LONG Top plate once walls are erected to tie everything together and to bridge over the wall panel connections.
- ** TIP ** Having really long Ratchet Straps can be most helpful when trying to pull wall sections together tight !
-- Have a good Nail Gun (Air or Passload etc) at hand with lot's of nails to nail it all together BUT FIRST use just 3 / 4 screws to place the walls till everything is cinched together nice & tight and then Nail Away .... Screws allow for removal, for adjustment and alignment till your set to nail up.
-- !! REMEMBER TO NUMBER / MARK EACH SECTION OF WALL as to where it belongs on the build !!! (I did that but it ain't my first rodeo - yes obvious but it's the obvious that get's forgotten)
-- STORING PANELS: Lay them FLAT & LEVEL, off the ground surface so they don't get damp / wet and cover with a Very Good Tarp ! They can & will twist & warp otherwise.
*-* Use Spiral Nails ONLY after everything is fit up & aligned because they are the most miserable thing to have to try and rip out if something is wrong and as such have little give if things need to be jiggered around a bit.
(*1) I used 5-1/2 HD EPS Foam in my walls so that was a must. There are nooks and crannies which become difficult or near impossible to insulate one the walls are up & nailed together. Spray Foam (commercial grade, not spray bomb) can solve most of that.
(*2) Prevents rust & decay and is better when attaching the wall structure to base. I would suggest using something like BluBoard / Bluwood REF: http://delkote.com/bluwood.php as the layer closest to ground... bit more $ BUT well worth it.
I thought the wall sections would be much heavier than they were but Maggie & I built, lifted and stacked them all ourselves and that includes windowed walls with heavy headers and door framing all in place.
In closing, I realize you are recycling and keeping costs down which is terrific & kudo's to you for doing so but I feel I should point out that the quality of today's 2x4's, even Premium #1, is, well... Let's just say that 2x3's 20 years ago were far stronger & better than what you get today's 2x4's, it's pretty sad really, so use New - Good wood for base & top plate and brace your walls properly with fire-stops @ 48".
REF Advanced Framing:
APA Advanced Framing Guide PDF
Hope this helps
Good Luck & most important of all, HAVE FUN WITH IT !
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Srollins
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2016 02:48pm
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Wow thanks Steve S tons of good advice , I appreciate that!
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2016 05:47pm
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BTW: I should have mentioned another Big CASH SAVER while recycling. You are working on schools and other "commercial" buildings, take time and talk to the roofers ! Most commercial buildings use PolyISO & Foam insulation on the roofs. PolyISO is one of the best insulation materials around and on a retail basis "outrageously expensive". the foam used is typically a High Density XPS like "RoofMate (tm)" usually 4" thick.
These foams in the Retail Land usually only available up to 2" thickness / R10 - R12. In Commercial Land they can be up to 5" thick or bonded to be thicker. ISO is usually R6 per inch while extruded or expanded foams are R5 per inch.
I used 7-1/2" Poly ISO in my roof (R45 between rafters) and LOVE THE STUFF! Light, Easy to cut, Bugs HATE it, breaths but will not transfer moisture. I bought 3.5" & 4" 4'x8' sheets for $7 & $8 per sheet respectively. I used a circ saw to cut the panels for the rafters BUT trimmed with an OLFA Knife and a Electric carving knife (very easy to cut and handle) BUT not the dust is nasty itch maker and wear a mask if using power saw. !! Do it outside !! A 4'x8' - 4" sheet of ISO weighs about 5 Lbs
IF prebuilding your walls you could cut the ISO into 22-1/2 strips and lay them between your studs, then tuck the next stud tight and next panel, studs etc... Studs in tight will not warp. ** Remember to leave access to nail / screw / fasten your walls.
Comparison I had to buy a 4x8x2" sheet of foil faced ISO and that cost me just under $35 - "Market Bares prices".
REF INFO: https://www.iko.com/comm/product/ikotherm/ but there are many manufacturers all over and 90% chance the roofer's working on the same schools you are using this material. ASK them about their "Take Off Insulation" and see if you can score that. NB: Here it is mandatory to recycle such materials, ISO is very easy to recycle and reprocess but they have to ship their "take off ISO" for processing so selling it to Joe Consumer saves them $ while saving you $ which is a 3 way WIN-WIN-WIN.
Info on RoofMate(tm) insulation: US Site
http://building.dow.com/en-us/products/styrofoam-brand-roofmate-insulation/?sc_itemid =%7B7d88dcd6-431e-41eb-9a87-5c19c2d579fc%7D
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sparky30_06
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2016 06:18pm
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what Steve_S said!
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Srollins
Member
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# Posted: 26 Nov 2016 06:40pm
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Awesome idea currently working on a 110,000 soft and yes they are using that never thought of that, thanks very much good stuff .
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2016 11:50am
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Just to reiterate one point Steve made- if you build in sections you want to end up with a solid double top plate. The overlaps should be 4 feet. So build with just the one top plate, then after it's assembled put a second on top with minimum 4 foot overlaps everywhere. If you end up with top plate joints where it's hard to get that overlap, put a strap across it. In any kind of lateral motion on the building (earthquake, wind) the top plates are compressed and then pulled in tension- and they need to stay together. If not done correctly it's a real weak point in light frame construction.
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Srollins
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# Posted: 27 Nov 2016 02:38pm
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Understood thanks bldginsp will do
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