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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 10 Apr 2016 05:52pm
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Has anyone done one? My builder will probably heave a great sigh if I suggest a change at this stage of the game, but thank me once he thought about it. With the new land and my envisioning things on it, a Saltbox (from my years in New England) popped into my head. Gosh, it would be a good style for what I want.
With the roof slope, it would shed snow and water like nobody's business and the roof line is straightforward and simple. I could have a half loft on the "high" side very easily with the ceiling height I need and then a half-cathedral ceiling. I read on Green Advisor that Saltboxes are very easy to insulate and energy efficient for a number of reasons.
You don't see many Saltboxes built outside of New England. I'd have to find plans for one or have architectural drawings made, I guess. They're really just a modification of a Cape Cod gable roof.
But I'm exploring and pondering. I think a Saltbox might be just the ticket.
A cabin version something like this, without the garage and fancy stuff, of course, and smaller footprint.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 10 Apr 2016 07:37pm
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This is a sketch I remember from Eric Sloane on how a saltbox is proportioned. Typically the long roof slope faced north. Not that any of that is cast in stone.
Play with some sketches, I think it'll be larger,
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 10 Apr 2016 09:52pm
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Don_P
I've seen the long roof typically on the back, yeah, and the shorter on the front but I've also seen the type I posted, too. There are a few modern variations on the saltbox that are kinda neat but I'm generally not a fan of modern architecture.
Can't recall the exact footprint of the one in the pic but it's not big. 24X30, maybe? And that includes the garage. Living space-wise, it's about 320 upstairs and a bit more than that downstairs. If the plans weren't so dang expensive, I'd order them because it might be a good base from which to work. If I can't find anything else quickly and my builder is willing to take on a Saltbox, maybe I will.
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Rdkng07
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# Posted: 10 Apr 2016 10:43pm
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Hi Julie, I am a big fan of the salt box style. If you go that route, check into a shed dormer being built into it. Pennies on the dollar and you get some great space upstairs. They look pretty good to.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 10 Apr 2016 11:18pm
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Thanks, Rdkng07! 
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2016 03:31am
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Oh my goodness, look at this! Great square footage and use of space, small footprint!
http://www.hopperdesignllc.com/solarhomes/designs/Cabin%20Getaway%2012x20.php
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Don_P
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2016 06:51am
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Devil's advocate, that is a very bright interior as designed, not good from your comments. It could be spun 180 and use the glazing to showcase a view but loses much of the solar and energy benefit. Spirals are not fun day to day, I'd try to modify to a standard stair even if it needs to grow a bit.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2016 07:19am
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Don_P
Oh, I absolutely agree. I'd have fewer windows, with French doors leading out to the screened-in porch from the living room, instead. And I'd definitely nix the spiral staircase. On another page, he even says a standard staircase is fine for this design.
I'd get rid of the first-floor desk area and that cubbyhole/cabinet thing in the living room, too. I just think it takes up space unnecessarily. He has closets included in the floorplan, plus I could put a few cubbyholes in the porch and other places.
But I really, really love the floorplan, architecture, and use of space. It's a good design, I think. LOVE the second floor. The Saltbox solves the headroom issue and his design really makes makes the loft a neat, functional space!
He has a great website. I like his designs! He favors traditional architecture and creates energy-efficient homes that are inexpensive to build. Looks like the Saltbox is one of his favorites.
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Just
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2016 09:12am
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South side of my sons home .. hardly a cabin,, design by jenish.com
28 x 28 full bacement
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corner stair
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2016 03:15pm
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Oh, what a beauty, Just! That's a good-sized house! Not a cabin but not a behemoth, either.
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rockies
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2016 06:16pm
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I guess the gambrel has gone the way of the dodo? Funny how a personal decision is defended to the nth degree when someone else "attacks" it but then is quickly tossed aside when they discover something better.
The simplicity and ease of building a saltbox makes it a beautiful and inexpensive home to build and heat. All of the other points you made are relevant too.
I wish you the best of luck.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2016 06:28pm
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rockies
I don't know if my current builder will/can do a Saltbox. I've not seen Saltboxes offered in those parts so my choice was limited to Gable or Gambrel. Gambrel IS my choice under those circumstances.
I would like to find someone able and willing to do a Saltbox in my area within my budget. If that's not possible, then I'll do the Gambrel.
I do hope my builder will be willing to take it on, though. It will be a learning thing and, actually, could provide more models/designs for him to offer. We'll see what happens.
If I hadn't lived in New England, I wouldn't have even been aware of Saltboxes. They're not common outside of that region. I wish I'd have thought of it sooner.
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rockies
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2016 06:40pm
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I don't know why any builder wouldn't want to build a saltbox. It's simply a gable roofed house with a shed roof attached to one side. In New England it become common because the shed addition behind the main house helped the house withstand wind gusts blowing in off the ocean. The "shed" basically acted like a flying buttress. By keeping the pitch of the shed roof the same as the main roof it was easy to extend the roof downwards. It's very simple and easy to build and results in some very nice interior spaces.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2016 07:14pm
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My builder has a small operation. From what I read of Saltbox roof construction, one of the "cons" is the steepness, height, and length of the one side so it can be a bit more perilous to be up there building it. Piece of cake for someone used to doing long, steep roofs but not as much for a small building team that isn't.
It will come down to whether they think their small crew is up for it and they see it as something cool and worth doing/learning. I hope they will.
I'm really loving the design by this Hopper guy and would like to do it -- with fewer windows and other minor modifications. Can't tell from the pics how tall it is but it does seem to have quite the elevation to accomplish the open feel and the head room on the second floor.
The design captures my needs and goals extremely well == simplicity, efficiency, and environmental and cost sense. I can't tell what sort of screen windows comprise the screen porch but if they're just screens, I'll want to hit the Habitat ReStore and similar places for inexpensive used glass windows with screens, I think.
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KSalzwedel
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 02:16am
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Julie2oregon, "convince" your builder it is what he wants to build. You are paying for it! Why shouldn't you get what suits your needs?
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upndown
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 09:15am
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I agree, he's a builder. If he can't handle it or doesn't want to, you need to move on! The last thing you need is to be sitting the house that he Could build saying I wish I would have.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 09:44am
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The builder has invested quite a bit effort in plan A. Has he been fully compensated for that? Doubtful. The only thing that hasn't changed is a potential client that has changed everything else. Sure there are reasons, always are. His creditors don't care about them, they do not matter. From a business perspective, knowing that present behavior is a pretty fair indicator of future behavior, I would question any businessman that didn't move on as quickly as decorum would allow.
Julie, the conversation with your builder should start with discussing fully compensating him for helping you with that part of your research. Then you can both start again in good faith and conscience.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 08:25pm
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Don_P
Well, honestly, I have done my musing and considering without involving him. Then, I presented what I wanted in a gambrel, he gave the measurements to two truss companies to come up with drawings, and from that and my list, gave me the estimate. Am I willing to compensate him for his time in doing that? Sure.
In the case of the Saltbox, I'm purchasing the plans and giving them to the builder. If he wanted a fee for doing the building estimate based on the plans, I'd pay it. But I don't see that doing estimates is above and beyond.
Here's the thing. I'm a lay person with absolutely no building or construction experience trying to figure out how to build a code-compliant small cabin with a loft bedroom. My only requirements have been just that -- a small kitchen and living area downstairs and a loft bedroom upstairs that will meet building code. A bathroom could go on whichever floor. As a lay person, is it up to ME to figure out how to accomplish that on my own? Because that's basically what I've been doing, with help and input from you guys here at the forum.
I saw gable and gambrel cabins. For what I wanted, and from what I knew, a gambrel would be better to give me the loft room I needed. If a building professional doesn't want me to use up his time or for me to be changing things or changing my mind, then wouldn't he be suggesting a building style that would work best for that loft instead of letting me try to figure things out? Because I DID ask, and I got drawings back instead asking, "How does this look?" I'm not the professional so how am I supposed to know?
It's only because I once lived in New England that I knew about Saltboxes and wondered if it would work. Google saltbox cabin online. You won't find a heckuva lot. Mostly big homes and tiny sheds, mostly. It wasn't until I found the Hopper design that I figured it could be done for my use and location.
The building relationship HAS to be a two-way street. No, I don't want to be changing my mind or becoming a PITA. It's stressful for them and for me, too. But I also need their expertise. I'm hiring that, as well as the fact that they're good with tools.
Not providing input and options at the start is almost as bad as someone insisting on a one-story design (for no land use, climate or code reason) when you want two and that you need a bunch of high-end feaures and embellishments when that's not the type of person you are. When these things happen, it may not be easy or smooth.
So, from a builder's standpoint, what would you suggest, Don? Should I discuss the Saltbox with the current builder, give them the plans and see if they can/want to do it, and offer to pay them for their time? Or do I just start over with someone else and say, "Here are the plans: Please give me an estimate on this build."?
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 08:38pm
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KSalzwedel and upndown
I agree but I also sympathize. These folks are general contractors BUT they mostly build sheds, barns, garages, greenhouses, tiny houses, and, yes, sometimes a small house. This project will be at the higher end of what they've done, although not the biggest. I'm not saying they don't have the skills -- they do, and they do enjoy different designs and projects. It's more the fact that they're a small company and don't routinely work on more complex projects.
This is like threading a needle. Most larger home builders aren't terribly interested in doing a simple small cabin this size but the project also hits the top limit of the small builders. LOL, at this point, I'm about ready to assemble a motley crew of people standing outside of Home Depot, ask if a few of them can read blueprints, hire one professional to be in charge of them, and then tell the gang to have at it.  (Kidding!)
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Don_P
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2016 10:30pm - Edited by: Don_P
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The point in that is that you acknowledge the value of the work you have asked for, his time. Speak plainly and openly, listen to one another. See how it feels and then do what feels right.
I don't sense any commitment to this style either, do not go into design, engineering and bidding until you settle. Yes asking him to work up multiple estimates on wildly varying designs is way above and beyond.
Is it up to you? Certainly not if you wish to have someone else do it, the questions and constraints you presented point more to an architect or a design/build firm. Some builders are more comfortable and/or more competent at design than others...
Should he have presented options? Some do, others don't, that is really the role of the designer rather than the builder. If I'm given a sketch or plan the options I'll present are more in the details. For instance, as a builder I presented an option that made your choice of a gambrel roof useable. My sense was that you were not receptive to any other style, I was responding within that constraint. I suspect that was probably what your builder was doing too.
My point in that was to eliminate everyone as chief visionary except Julie. Go back to square one. Hit the planbooks and find out what you like... and not just this week. Then ask for help with the details. If you are receptive that opens up input from others, smile as you winnow.
Another option that fixes cost and allows one to see all their options readily is modular. The design/build headaches are taken care of, the "build" is very fast.
edit; I'll ramble on and flesh out why some builders are correctly shy about doing any design work, this may or may not pertain. My license allows me to design prescriptively, my insurance does not. In a neighboring state if a homeowner acts as GC and hires me as a subcontractor, if I offer advice, I become the legal GC for the entire project.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 01:34am
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Don_P
My builder didn't present anything. He asked me what I wanted and I was floundering because all I saw in his designs was either gable or gambrel. I did send along to him what you offered regarding the gambrel trusses. He decided to try a different truss company and their drawings.
I have decided on the Saltbox, which is why I'm buying these plans. I simply need someone to build it. Perhaps what you sense as a lack of commitment to it is really my concern that I won't be able to find someone willing to build it because it's an atypical design for that area. Most of the affordable builders have their set floorplans and sizes and don't deviate. The custom builders do larger, more pricey homes.
This Saltbox, btw, can be built in sections and assembled onsite so I guess it could be modular.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 07:50am
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Quoting: Julie2Oregon I have decided on the Saltbox, which is why I'm buying these plans. I simply need someone to build it.
Whoops, first you need someone to modify those stock plans. This may be you, your builder under your direction or can be a local designer or design professional (that was a list of the full spectrum). One doodle you might want to try is higher second floor windows on the tall side with overhangs thoughtful of sun angles. This would allow a shed porch tied in below them protecting/ shading the lower windows. Still a well daylighted plan but with less direct sunlight.
By modular I was not suggesting that a site builder prefab components, (BTDT it doesn't work as well in practice, well for Dad it sort of worked in Feb in Moscow but other than extremes, no). Rather I was suggesting sitting down with a modular home sales rep and thumbing through their hundreds of designs. They can modify most, costs are pretty tightly controlled. If there is one locally up there it might be worth considering.
I've pulled you off track, I'll step back now
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 01:32pm
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LOL, yes, don't pique my interest in something else. I have ADHD so it's lethal.
I really am sold on the Saltbox, though. It would work great for me. I like the simplicity, and it would get me what I want/need without a lot of configuring. I love the Hopper design because it packs a lot in a small footprint. That screen porch is magic. It could essentially be a "mud room" but more functional, plus it opens up the space.
The only things we'd need to do are lose some of the windows, make one of the loft windows an egress if one isn't already, and make the spiral staircase a straight one (but his plans already allow for that).
I'm not following you on the "shed porch." So I'd have 3 porches, then? Or is that in place of something else? I don't understand.
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rockies
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# Posted: 14 Apr 2016 09:41pm
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http://modspdx.com/
Modular Home Manufacturer in Portland,Or
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2016 03:10pm
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Interesting. Thanks, rockies! I'll give them a call and see if they serve my area. Portland is rather far so they might or might not. I'm much closer to Medford or Bend.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2016 07:45pm
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I'm having trouble getting through to these modular builders (I found another one, too). The phone goes to a rapid busy signal after ringing a few times. Thinking they might no longer be in business or the number changed. Hmmm.
But an interesting development. I found an existing Saltbox-style cabin for sale on a couple of acres. I actually love it. It's not in the area I was looking but it's def doable if I can negotiate on price. It's at the high end of my pre-approval.
I didn't want to do a mortgage again but maybe buying a cabin I love that's already built is the right thing? And since the owners have a fondness for mustard yellow paint inside that I really don't share, hahahaha, there are still ways to "make it me."
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2016 08:00pm
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If I may say so Julie, I have wondered whether you were taking on too much starting from scratch on a bare lot. It's a lot of work and you end up doing a lot of it yourself. You're an ambitious person, but like me you have a few health issues here and there, and there is only so much a body can do. You'll have plenty to keep you busy if you buy a house already built.
I started nine years ago when I thought I was still young enough to do this kind of stuff. Well, the rheumatiz' is catchin' up with me. I wouldn't start a project like this now, thank goodness I have most of the hard work done already.
I'd hate to see you get overwhelmed with too much, which I have seen happen to many people who built a house.
I hope you find your bliss.
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2016 08:24pm
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bldginsp
You surely may say so, lol. I've been working from the premise that I really didn't want to take on debt -- or not much that I couldn't pay off within a few years. But, yeah, this is really hard, especially from a distance of 1,700 miles. And I've been banging my head against the wall trying to get everything "figured out" to perfection because I'm selling my home and stuff to arrive at a bare lot. The risks are enormous.
Gosh, it would be pretty freaking awesome to "arrive" at a cabin that already had the stuff I need. Sure, I'd convert it to solar and do my thing but I could live there from the word go and actually have an address! If this one doesn't work out, I found a few more around the area that would also work. Not Saltboxes but so much less expensive that I could use them for a base from which to build. With water, sewer, and electric already in.
There weren't cabins on the market in my price range when I started this odyssey. Now there are. So we'll see what happens!
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Don_P
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2016 09:32pm
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I like this direction, move in time is immediate, you have shelter no matter what, it controls cost better. It would probably be worthwhile to have a home inspection company look it over, paying attention more for fatal flaws than easy fixes and things that wear out or will be changed anyway.
With a solid structure you can then modify at your leisure, lots going for it.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 15 Apr 2016 10:15pm
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A house in really poor condition is a worse struggle than building new... Pays to exhaustively investigate... Real estate agents have one basic motive- sell!
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