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Mountain Madness
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2016 10:50am
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I am moving my cabin about 14' and want to anchor into the rock it is sitting on in which to use as pulling point for a winch. Should I use epoxy to bed the anchor bolts or grout? The rock is hard basalt.
The cabin is 32 x 14 " think oversized Kenora 2" and built on two 6x8 laminated skids. I was thinking of sliding steel I beams under the skids and putting a steel plate in between the skids and I beam with grease to make it slide easier.
Any one know about what a 32x14 with a loft weighs?
Ideas/suggestions?
Thanks
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tverga
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2016 02:52pm - Edited by: tverga
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It is always better to use a sling to wrap around something than to have attachment points that could pull out and fail.
You have not mentioned what will be doing the pulling, mules, tractors, trucks, come-a-longs or chain hoists. It is imperative to use a steady pressure than something that could torque or twist the structure. Biodegradable soapy water makes a good lube...
The structure probably close to 10 ton, so slow and steady. Is there any slope to worry about, you would hate to get it moving and have no way to stop it. Chain works well as a safety.
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2016 03:43pm
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODFcebyxZxo
I would use a series of these comealongs to move the cabin, three or four, connected to eye bolts that I would drill holes in the basalt rock and anchor the eye bolts to the rock with one of the modern epoxy compounds made for such application, like brands by Hilti or Strong-tie. properly installed epoxied eye bolts will be impossible to pull from the rock and the comealongs will allow you to go slow and position the cabin easily into its new home.
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old243
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2016 04:16pm
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I moved a house, About 5 feet once, it was built on two lots and shifted it a bit so I could sell the other lot. Had fir timbers , 6x18 full length of the house in two places one above the other with pieces of 4 inch well casing as rollers. used a railway jack on each one to shove it along. Go slow and have a couple of responsible, observers to help you. Anchors should work well. Would recommend rollers. There is a lot of preparation to get it right, it will move surprisingly easy. Good Luck old243
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Mountain Madness
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2016 04:43pm
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The pad the building is on is cut out of Basalt in a hill side with a steep slope. I am planning on using a 12,000 pound winch with a double snatch block set up for mechanical advantage. I need to be really careful because of the slope we put in with the dozer for drainage.
Over a 40' run the pad drops 3'. So one end of the building is 3' in the air and the other end is on the rocks.
I am going to set up some kind of safety chains or cables so I can't accidentally lose the building over the edge.
I wonder how much force it will take to skid this cabin along?
I would love to be able to wrap a rock with a sling but unfortunately we dozed all of the protruding rocks on the pad flat with a D6N.
So epoxy it is. I was planning on using 2 one inch diameter eye bolts for the winch anchor.
I wonder if putting them a foot in the rock will be enough?
Quickcrete recommends a nine to one ratio for depth. So if your using half inch bolts they would need to be 4.5 inches installed depth. Their recommendation is for concrete though.
I wonder what if any difference there is for stone?
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Mountain Madness
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2016 04:45pm
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I would love to put the cabin on rollers but one end is up in the air. It's going to be an adventure for sure.
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AK Seabee
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2016 06:33pm
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while doing this take some photos and give us an update when you are finished please.
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Mountain Madness
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2016 08:13pm - Edited by: Mountain Madness
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This is where it's at now. I decided I am too close to the edge and dug behind it about 20' deeper into the hill side.
Proper planning would have saved me a ton of work on this project.
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Mountain Madness
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2016 08:21pm - Edited by: Mountain Madness
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This is the grade of the hillside the pad was cut out of.
And as much fun as it would be to watch..... I don't want to lose the cabin by having it move the wrong way. It get's really steep just to the left of the porch.
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Mountain Madness
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# Posted: 25 Feb 2016 08:52pm - Edited by: Mountain Madness
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Nothing like ripping out solid rock with a back hoe after the fact 
Well actually it was fun running the hoe
Getting the hoe off the side of the mountain after it snowed three feet in the dark with all four chained up well...not so much.
Backhoe on site
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Moving Backhoe the night before the next big storm
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Topper
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 01:18am
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Looks like you have hurricane ties attaching each floor joist to the beams. That's good.
Consider; temporary cross bracing to keep the cabin from tweaking while it is being raised-lowered-moved around.
How are you going to drill the holes in the rock? Will a Hilti hammer drill work? Or will you need an air compressor & jack hammer? Be careful of jamming the steel in the hole.
Do you have house jacks lined up? You say the rear of the cabin is sitting on the rock bed. Can you jack up that end? I've raised the end of a 16'x18' cabin with a pair of hi-lift jacks. But they were likely near their limit...
What are the piers made of besides the wood blocks? Looks like quite a long span between the front pier & the pier near the piece of OSB. The added pier located to be the new front pier...
Is the cabin 24' with 8' deck?
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Mountain Madness
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 09:54am
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I was planning on using a rotary hammer drill. I will need to drill a 1 1/16 " hole 12" deep for each anchor point. I hope an electric rotary hammer drill will have enough grunt to get it done..
Yes,
the cabin body is 24'. The deck is 8'.
There are two more piers in between the osb sheet and the one you can see in the front.
I don't have house jacks but do have bottle jacks.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 11:08am - Edited by: turkeyhunter
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I would leave it where it is...and just do everything possible to secure it where it's at!!!
BUT that being said: I LIKE LIVING ON THE EDGE
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Don_P
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 11:50am - Edited by: Don_P
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Personally, I do too... after I secure those around me, they don't run as fast or bounce as well
I have next to largest Hilti, no problem for it
Crane
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Topper
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 12:57pm
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After sleeping on it. I would hunt up someone locally who knows about such things, to come out to your cabin & for the price of a consultation give you recommendations which you could take into advisement.
I suspect one of his recommendations would by what turkeyhunter & Don P have said...
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tverga
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 01:01pm
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I gotta tell ya, the way it looks now a good rain and the cabin may move itself...
Looking at the photo I would bring in a few (3) long steel I-Beams and run them under the house. Jack the house using the I-Beams and make sure you provide proper footing for the beams. If you build a solid footing for the beams you can slide the cabin to it's new location and simply cut off the extra beam. Now you have a cabin on a nice solid steel foundation.
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Topper
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 01:13pm
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Just to throw this out there. Sometimes stupid ideas begin to have merit as you think about them?!?
As in; instead of moving the cabin. Move the edge.
As in a retaining wall (anchored to the bedrock) maybe 3 or 4 feet from the deck.
Yeah I know, stupid idea, but, as a bonus, it could help level out the entire cabin site.
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Topper
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 01:22pm
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I refer you to the weight per foot of I-beams.
Consider the cabin's logistics - manpower & equipment to make it work.
http://www.saginawpipe.com/i-beams_jr._beams.htm
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tverga
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 01:35pm
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Quoting: Topper I refer you to the weight per foot of I-beams. Consider the cabin's logistics - manpower & equipment to make it work.
400-500 pounds each, a small backhoe and some chain can make quick work of moving them.
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1tentman
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 01:50pm
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I agree with turkeyhunter leave it where it is . Drill holes and set anchors behind it ,fasten cables to the anchors and to the skids you have under it and use a turnbuckle and put tension pulling back into the bank. The one question I have are the concrete piers you have it setting on are they anchored into the rock or are they setting on top the rock? If you secure it down the only way it will move is if the whole hillside moves and if that happens it isnt going to matter if is setting where it is or back 14 feet.
PS send picture of the view off the porch I bet it is awesome.
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Mountain Madness
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 04:20pm
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Good comments and suggestions everyone. I can tell you through the winter the building has not moved. Although one of the outer most corners where there is some fill it did settle.
Originally this was going to be a 14x24 cabin. Then we decided to make it a little larger.... The pad looked big enough at the time .... lots of other excuses ...
Here are some more photo's
Off the front deck winter
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Off the front deck summer
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Mountain Madness
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 04:25pm
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Oh and the blocks are only sitting on the surface of the pad. I have not yet anchored the cabin. It did survive 70 MPH gusts. So I guess uplifting has not been a factor yet. I am learning more about that now though and I will be tying this thing down tight when I am done.
Learning as you go has been tough on me. Lots of errors.
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1tentman
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 04:31pm
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That is one sweet view you have there Mountian, maybe you said and I just missed it where are you located.
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Topper
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 06:16pm - Edited by: Topper
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Quoting: tverga for the beams you can slide the cabin to it's new location and simply cut off the extra beam.
32 foot cabin + 14 foot relocate = 46 foot beams.
Could he get even 32' beams delivered?
Quoting: tverga 400-500 pounds each, a small backhoe and some chain can make quick work of moving them.
Weight depending upon the size of the beams.
Mt. Mad doesn't have much room for maneuvering I-beams of much any length.
Would use nylon sling(s) not chain...
Curious, are you recommending lifting with the backhoe's loader bucket or the backhoe boom?
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2016 06:34pm
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After seeing photos and reading suggestions, Yes, I would leave it where it is now. i would do the anchors at the back in the rock and also would looked a building a retaining wall near your steep side, anchoring the wall back into the rock.
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Jebediah
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# Posted: 27 Feb 2016 07:53am - Edited by: Jebediah
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I agree with others I would leave it where it is but we are not you and You sound somewhat concerned about the issue and its hard for us to tell exactly from the pics if the cabin is in a precarious location or not. If you still want to move it option #1 would be to phone the professionals and ask them for advice. Its been my experience that inexperience can result in over thinking and complicating tasks which sometimes results in failure and injury.
There's this way and that way and then there's the right way.
That's a million dollar view...
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 27 Feb 2016 10:01am - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: Topper As in; instead of moving the cabin. Move the edge. As in a retaining wall (anchored to the bedrock) maybe 3 or 4 feet from the deck. Yeah I know, stupid idea, but, as a bonus, it could help level out the entire cabin site.
My thoughts exactly. What you remove from the back of the cabin, move it in front of it. You could anchor to the ground, pin in rebar, cement or just neatly stack stone. The ground its on looks solid and rocky from picture. Add adequate drainage to remove water during heavy rains to keep it from undermining or loads of french drains. Otherwise, the best move option would be to shove through to long steel beams and pick it up with a 4 point sling and a crane.
Anchor it well where it in, built up in front of it. also plant some large growing evergreen trees a ways in front of it to further hold the hill and cabin in place. As the trees grown, trim off lower branches to keep the view.
Work on one acnhor point at a time, shore it up temp, dig to rock, anchor and pin in rebar, build form, pour in cement. Do this to each one.
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old243
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2016 09:20am
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If you intend to leave it where it is you might consider a permanant block or poured foundation. Would have to be done in stages, might also require some hand digging. Would require wood timber cribbing, blocking to hold everything stable , likely also temporary Beams underneath. But if you went to all that preparation , I would just move it , to where you really want it. old243
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 1 Mar 2016 11:51pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Yeah. I'd leave it where it is and anchor it in place as explained above. And/or build a new lower level deck out in front that is well anchored and permanent (I.e. Steel posts cemented in ) that would be attached to the cabin and hold it back from any amount of slippage.
As for the area cleared out behind it, build something else there. It's a cool opportunity to be creative. A sheltered patio / BBQ / outdoor lounging area. Workshop/garage (boring), raised pool (more exciting)...
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 2 Mar 2016 01:22am
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech Otherwise, the best move option would be to shove through to long steel beams and pick it up with a 4 point sling and a crane.
Can a truck mounted crane get into the site? I helped a friend move a cabin to a new foundation with the help of a crane. No steel beams. Just straps around the cabin, crane picked it up and set it on a flatbed tractor/trailer. Moved 50 yards to the new location, crane repositioned, and picked it off the trailer and on to the new foundation we had built.
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