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RedTailHawk
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2016 09:39am - Edited by: RedTailHawk
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I have a cabin with a well water system. I have a barn that I'm going to add in a workshop, game cleaning station, etc. However the barn is a good distance from the cabin so porting water to it manually gets old real fast. I want to install a faucet in the barn, and I'm considering a couple options:
1) tap into existing well that feeds cabin and run a line straight to the barn
2) tap into water from cabin and run a line to the barn
3) dig a new well closer to the cabin
Besides cost differences of running a line vs digging a well, here are some of the disadvantages of each option.
1) can you put 2 pumps into 1 well?
2) though it will tap into the water that has been softened and aerated, not sure if that is necessary for cleaning my ATVs, processing game (ie venison), or washing oil spills off the barn floor. Also, going from cabin to the barn goes very close to the septic field.
3) not sure if there is a good spot close to the barn.
Another point that affects options 1 and 3. The ground water does have a lot of iron, so taking the filtered water from the cabin may not be a bad idea for cleaning game meat as I'm processing it in the barn.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
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Topper
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2016 01:42pm
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Quoting: RedTailHawk for cleaning my ATVs, processing game (ie venison), or washing oil spills off the barn floor.
How deep would a new well likely be & how expensive?
Is there rocky soil, etc. making a trench difficult to dig?
1. drive the ATV over to the cabin to wash it.
2. How many deer do you process per year to warrant a water system?
3. Oil spills where you process meat?
4."Cleaning" oil spills with water?
-- Place a blue tarp or visqueen under 'whatever equipment/ vehicles' to catch oil drips? Or store somewhere else?
-- use the ATV to "port" the water over to the barn?
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RedTailHawk
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2016 02:01pm
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The well for the cabin is probably between 50-75 feet deep. Soil is surprisingly sandy considering it is in the Appalachian mountains (though it was probably beach front property millions of years ago).
I know mixing oil and food prep areas doesn't sound like a good idea, but I plan to hose down the concrete floor regularly to keep it clean (from whatever is deposited by the ATVs). When processing the venison, it will be hung on a gambrel from the ceiling and won't touch the floor, but probably a bit of blood will drip, so I'd want the water to rinse that out too.
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Just
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2016 05:09pm
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Run the line from the pump to the barn , no problem running by the septic as long it is a positive pressure line, not a suction line ,
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Topper
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2016 07:53pm
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Easy digging, so I'd go with trenching.
Had another idea, just to throw out there, rain gutters & a cistern. If it's a case of new gutters on an old barn -- estetics. You could get around that...
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 17 Feb 2016 08:09pm
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I would ask if its level, the pressure wouldn't be much of an issue. If it was mean, I'd run water to the barn. Where you tap into the existing system would be up to you. Run a 1" line tapped into a 1" line (feed tot eh cabin now from well), use the black poly pipe.
That is what I would do.
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2016 10:51am
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RedTailHawk
For around $60-80 in my part of the world, you can purchase a 250 foot roll of "black poly"one inch pipe. This stuff is HDPE pipe and will last two lifetimes if buried away from the UV of the sun. Easy to work with and fittings are very economical. Use a heating device, (propane burner, etc) to heat the ends at the "push on" fittings and double clamp while hot with radiator hose at these fittings. For under a $ 100 I can purchase all I need to connect the well to the barn. Why do you want another pump? just connect into the line upstream from the pump and before the house, trench in the black poly and you have water. If I was concerned about washing deer, etc with unfiltered water, then for gosh sake, go bring a little water from the cabin for the final washing. Just plumb in a cut off ball valve where you T off the line at the pump so you can cut off water supply to barn in cold weather, etc. Probably I would do same type ball valve at barn so I could keep the above ground stuff free of water in the super cold weather months. If you have equipment to do trenching, this is 1/2 days work and $ 100.
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1tentman
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2016 01:02pm
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RedTail Hawk
Couple quick question , what kind of pump system do you have. Is it a single line submersiable or twin line jet pump, is the pressure tank in the cabin or in a well house over well. Depending on how your system is set up will determine where you hook line in for barn , maybe you dont have either of these set ups. If there is a pressure tank involved then you should hook in after the pressure tank and head to the barn.
Littlecooner is right on installing like he explained, just make sure you use stainless steel clamps with stainless steel screws.
I would install a hydrant in the barn so when it is shut off it will drain back into the ground and wont freeze.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2016 02:20pm
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Presuming there is a pressure tank in the cabin- I wonder if it works to put two pressure tanks on one pump. Split the water line at the well head, run poly to the barn (with electrical) and put a separate pressure tank in the barn. That way you bypass the water softener. But I don't know if it is possible to operate two pressure tanks off one pump.
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1tentman
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2016 03:20pm
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I really dont see no advantage to two tanks in this system, if the tank is in the cabin the water comes from the well to the tank then to the softener and everything else. Cut into the line coming out of the pressure tank before softener and run to barn. Myself I would like to have conditioned water at the barn, soap seems to work better with conditioned water.
The two tank set up would be a wiring nightmare if think.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2016 06:08pm
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I see your point
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2016 06:56pm - Edited by: Littlecooner
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Hey guys, the pressure tanks do not require wiring. I have two pressure tanks where I sit now, and besides that, at one time I ran another house off the same well, I have a small pressure tank at the well in the well house and we have larger pressure tanks at the houses. All that tank does is prevent constant cycling of the pump. I agree with putting direct bury electrical cable in the trench from the house to the barn. I forgot to mention the stainless steel clamps and the fact of the need to tie in after the pressure tank. thanks bilgnisp. I have about 1000 feet of one inch pipe from the well to the house. I did try to have only the pressure tank at the house when I set it up and then went back and did the small tank to keep the pump from cycling. I agree all he needs at the barn is the outside hydrant that drains out when you turn off the water. We have a lot of them in my part of Alabama and it gets down below 0 a lot of times during the winters.
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1tentman
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# Posted: 18 Feb 2016 11:28pm
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Coonner you are correct each tank doesnt need electric. On most systems the pressure tank, pressure switch, control box ,check valve and electric are in the same spot, like they are on your system in your well house. Every pressure tank you add after the check valve is just adding more capacity to the system. Until we have more info on hawks system we are all guessing on what would be the best hookup. Looking at his drawing the well is close to the cabin so Iam assuming that all the components to the system are in the cabin to help keep them from freezing. Some one said tap into line from well to cabin and run to barn, if you do this and the check valve is in the cabin you would only have water at the barn when pump is running. If you install a pressure tank at barn you would need electric to run another set of controls, unless that tank is hooked into system after the check valve. I hope this makes sense.
Hawk the easiest and cheapest is to run a line from cabin to barn and install a hydrant at barn. You will have all the pressure you need for what you say your using the water for.
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 19 Feb 2016 09:15am - Edited by: Littlecooner
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I have to agree, RedTailHawk did not provide the information we needed to be in a position to offer great advice. We have no idea if he is running a jet pump or a submersible and do not have any idea where the pressure switch and pressure tank, with water treatment is located. I am in the south and a lot of these items are located in a "well house" sitting over the well. A few that have submersible pumps have these items inside the residence if the well is close to the house, somewhat like RedTail Hawk's drawing. I see a lot of people on this form are in the Canadian province area, cold weather country where normal wells need a lot of cold weather protection. I wish this forum was like others that I am on so that each of us would know the approximate location of the subject. I agree with your thoughts, me I would just go purchase the HDPE 250 roll of pipe and fittings for less that $ 100 and tie into the house plumbing. But if he desires to use a great deal of water at his "barn" to wash vehicles, etc, then it could be expensive to treat the water, I have saw some of the treatment systems where the cost of operations was fairly expensive. We are all trying to provide advice and really do not have the information to produce an excellent opinion. I am a do it yourself er and the stuff i have in was basically designed and installed by me, so I have some redneck knowledge of this subject. We southern independent redneck will come up with an idea, go do the construction and if it works, sit on the porch and drink a cold one, and when it does not work, we take it out and try something else. Part of the Independence cabin off grid mentality. Try it and see if it works. Putting a line from house to barn has to be done and anything at each end can be changed rather economically and easy. Digging a well in my area can run anywhere from $ 3,000 to $ 8000 and then you have to purchase and maintain the pump, equipment, have electricity and make sure it does not freeze in the winter. I got involved when he wants to know, dig new well or run a water line.
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RedTailHawk
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 08:10am
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Thanks for all the great recommendations. I think I'm going with the line from the cabin, connected between the pressure tank and the water treatment system in the cabin. I'll put an underground tank at the barn with a hydrant valve so that water cuts off underground down below the frost line.
I probably should have given more info about the property when I first posted. It is 150 acres with an old 1850s log cabin. I/We get up here almost every weekend. At most, 4 people stay in the cabin. So I don't think there will be any issue overloading the water system from the barn.
Now here's another question. The septic system was installed in early 1990. When I bought the place, the guy didn't know where the septic was exactly, but said his dad had drawn a diagram when he filed with the county. I did a little research and got a copy of that diagram. (Note: I'm pretty certain this diagram wouldn't be accepted at any county government today). Not only is it not to scale by any means, but the orientation of certain objects on the diagram don't seem right. Anyway, does anyone know how to read the numbers that are sketched around the area that seems to be the septic field? I'm assuming the box with ST written in it denotes the Septic Tank.
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 09:04am - Edited by: Littlecooner
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ST does stand for Septic Tank. They used schedule 40 pvc for the plumbing from the house to the field lines. If you need to find the septic tank, there are always wire "handles" on the lid for lifting in place and most have wire or some from of steel reinforcing in the lid. a normal 1000 tank is rough sized as 5x10. Any metal detector should pick up the steel in the lid so you know exactly where it is located. Remember, everything has to flow on a slight grade and the field lines are always level. So they put in 200 feet of absorption field, ran the header straight from the outfall of the tank to the beginning of the first 100 feet of field lines, then did a crossover at the end, so the second run of 100 feet of line will be total level but could be at a lower elevation that the first. normal minimum separation in my part of the world is 8 feet, so i would expect similar there, let us say 10 foot between two parallel lines for discussion. I would think that those numbers are depth to the bottom of the trench. That is a guess, but I can not see any other reason for these numbers. Hey, it is an "as built" and may not look great to the eyes, but could be what your local officials would even accept today. It is all about the value of the location and data, not about the eye appeal. Note they sketched the septic tank in line with the front of the house and also showed a buried cable "towards the back". Most of the time, a slight depression where buried cable has been installed can be detected, due to mother natures compression of the disturbed soil, especially if it was opened with a back hoe (wider trench) over using a trencher. Does the lay of the land at you site make it reasonable that those numbers are depth to trench, because it is level on 100 foot run?
Those little arrows pointing "down" indicate flow of surface water and it appears that the lower line at the greatest distance from the house is only 16 inch deep for a few feet, which could be why they placed the remainder of the line at such a deep depth of 76 inches. A tape and little work on the ground to see if the slope drops off at some 120-130 feet from the bottom of the swale would lead one to believe he has a nice idea of where these lines are installed.
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RedTailHawk
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# Posted: 20 Feb 2016 09:19pm
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thanks for the all the great info Littlecooner. I have a general idea of where the Septic system is because of the clearing towards the side of the cabin. The hand drawn diagram makes it seem like it is in the stand of trees, which I don't think would be over a system. I may try to rent a metal detector when the snow is melted.
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