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pcroom
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# Posted: 24 Sep 2015 05:08pm
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I'm wanting to build a 16x16 cabin on peirs. Like the ones you see at Lowes stores (barns) but with a regular roof. But the upstairs maybe a 4' wall off the 8' ceiling from downstairs for height to at least walk around close to the side of the roof.
My question is I have lots of cedar trees on my property can I use them as peirs for my cabin they will be over a foot wide!!!!
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pcroom
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# Posted: 24 Sep 2015 05:19pm
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I live in missouri and our frost line is 30" and I will hit clay when I get over two foot deep good and solid but pour on draining tho.
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pcroom
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2015 04:02pm
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Thanks for your help!!!
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Just
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2015 05:19pm
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If you mean cut some cedar posts that are 12.in in diameter and bury them in the ground on a cement footing and add cross bracing above ground then ,,,YES that would be good ...
If you mean cut a few existing trees and build a cabin on the STUMPS with the roots still in the ground then,,, NO
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2015 06:25pm
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I think an argument could be made for building on stumps in the ground, if the trees happened to grow where you have enough of them to constitute a complete foundation.
Stumps in the ground are highly resistant to rot, would provide uplift resistance, and would distribute the load well.
When Odysseus finally returned to Ithaca from the Trojan war, he found that the bedstead he had built out of a tree trunk in the ground was still intact as it was 20 years before. Actually his wife, Penelope, not believing it was truly Odysseus who stood before him (or perhaps just to taunt him) suggested that he move the bed out of the chamber for the two of them to use. When he told her this could not be, because the bed was built on a tree stump, she knew it was he, Odysseus, returned at last.
Now, when the building department tells you to move your cabin because of a setback violation, just show them book 24 of the Odyssey.
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pcroom
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2015 07:15pm
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Thanks guys no it will be tree stumps I have plenty of cedar trees I can cut down and use as peirs and do I need to shave off the bark and coat the stumps with something and I was told to just back fill with dirt around the peirs!!! No concrete as it will rot at the point where the two meet....
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pcroom
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2015 07:23pm
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I will have a concrete footing and then back fill with dirt and is 9 peirs good spacing for a 16x16 then I thought like two 2x10 sandwich together for my beams then my floor joist I'm not sure. Should I use 2x6 2x8 or 2x10 and can I have my floor over hang at least 12" at ever corner of my beams?
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Julie2Oregon
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2015 12:28am
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Whoa, what a cool idea!!!
Don't know if it would meet codes where I'm building but wish it could.
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pcroom
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2015 01:40am
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Where I'm at anything under 300 square foot NO permit required.
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skootamattaschmidty
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2015 02:43am
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I built my log sauna/bunking last year on a number of stumps for piers with no issues yet. I was lucky enough to have enough in key spots to use. When I was deciding what to do I looked at a bunch of stumps that have been down and exposed to the elements for twenty years with little rot and thought why not? The dimensions of the base are approximately 10x14. I built with enough roof overhang that even in the heaviest rains they remain dry and are well protected. i would peel the bark off to help minimize bug damage.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2015 10:49am - Edited by: MtnDon
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Where I live a few years after a standing tree dies and remains standing it may fall over within a few years when a strong wind gust comes along. Some last longer, but the point is the wood does decay. The sapwood part of cedar is NOT as resistant to rot as the heart wood. Cut stumps left exposed above ground last for years for sure, but so does the rest of the tree if it does not lay directly on the ground.
No matter how resistant to rot, a pier foundation is still subject to the failings of any pier foundation. The subject can be found in existing discussion threads.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2015 10:53am
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Quoting: pcroom Where I'm at anything under 300 square foot NO permit required.
Check the wording of that section of regulations.Most every one of these no permit needed things I can remember looking at also make some sort of mention of the building being used as a storage shed, playhouse or other non inhabited building.
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 27 Sep 2015 12:38pm
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You could definitely do it. The question is how long they will last. I don't put any wood below ground for something I consider permanent.
That said, if you do go that route, I'd make sure you have good overhangs on the roof and slope the ground so that those piers stay dry.
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Truecabin
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# Posted: 28 Sep 2015 01:31pm - Edited by: Truecabin
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pcroom i have lots of cedar stumps from a harvest in 1990 and they are solid no rot thats 25 years out in the weather -no roof
where i am the cedars only grow where they get a lot of water so these stumps are sitting in the wet areas
depends where you are too there are different kinds of cedars maybe look for some cedar stumps in your area and determine when were they cut
if there is a tree nearby the stump it will show a significant growth spurt in the rings the year the cedar was cut but you have to take a core sample to look at the rings or cut it down then count down the years
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pcroom
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2015 04:27pm
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Ok thanks guys I have 2 yr old stumps that I cut down as tables still good and hard as a rock but when I make my footing and it hardens up and i set my stump on top of my footing can I pour some concrete around like a foot high just to help strengthen it alittle more plus if i pour alittle in the hole first and the stump isn't cut straight it will help me level the post better then after it drys fill in the rest with dirt!!!!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2015 05:31pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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FWIW
article 1
article 2
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Just
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2015 07:27pm - Edited by: Just
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Quoting: pcroom 2 yr old stumps that
Do " not" pour any cement around your cabin piers . just a pad in the bottom of the hole for them to sit on, then backfill with local soil .
If you pour extra cement around a pier the frost will heave the cement and the pier up and out of the earth.
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rockies
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# Posted: 29 Sep 2015 07:47pm
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Shouldn't the pad at the bottom of the hole be sitting on some tamped down crushed rock or stones for drainage (and also around the bottom foot or so of the post with soil above that?) Concrete can hold a lot of water (it's so porous) which is another reason not to pour it around the post, just use it for a pad.
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pcroom
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# Posted: 2 Oct 2015 01:49am
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Ok thanks guys
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pcroom
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# Posted: 2 Oct 2015 01:53am
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Should I coat the logs with tar or something to seal them?
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Just
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# Posted: 2 Oct 2015 09:32am
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a good under ground wood preservative '"not tar " would be best.Quoting: pcroom Should I coat the logs
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NorthRick
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# Posted: 2 Oct 2015 02:01pm
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Quoting: pcroom Should I coat the logs with tar or something to seal them?
You can buy a wood preservative solution at one of the big box stores. Usually by the gallon and made with copper napthenate, which is a good wood preservative.
Get a pan or bucket big enough for your cedar piers to sit in. Put at least a couple inches of the solution in the container and then place a pier in it with one of the cut ends in the solution. Let it sit for at least a few minutes. Even longer (hours) is better. Then flip the pier over and soak the other cut end.
The idea is to get the end grain of the wood to draw in the preservative. That end grain will want to draw in water once in place and having the preservative there will extend the life of the cedar pier.
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pcroom
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# Posted: 2 Oct 2015 04:12pm
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Ok thanks!!! Right now I'm trying to get the string level right grrrr!!!! One end will be level then the other end will be of just a tad I don't get it..... trying to get all four corners perfect. Any ideals thanks
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 2 Oct 2015 04:30pm
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try putting the string level at the mid point, not at ether end works best .
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pcroom
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# Posted: 2 Oct 2015 04:55pm
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O ok thanks!!! I never got an answer for a question I asked earlier in the forum but can I go 12" in on all four sides with my peirs it will have a loft up stairs.
And one more question on my footing how much gravel underneath the footing and do I need some metal mixed in with the footing to make the footing strong for the weight of the cabin... thanks
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Just
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# Posted: 2 Oct 2015 10:11pm
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Quoting: pcroom go 12" in on all
You can move the sides in 1ft. on both sides but all the joists must sit on the beams including the two end joists so you need 16 ft. beams
Quoting: pcroom gravel underneath
no gravel just clean all the loose dirt out of the bottom of the hole .. footing should be at least 16 in. in diameter and 6 in thick even better if it has rebar or glass in it ..
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pcroom
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# Posted: 3 Oct 2015 06:54am
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This may be a dumb question but my frost line is 30" here where I live so when I'm pouring my footing and let's say it's 6" thick does the bottom start at 30" or does the whole thing meaning the top of the 6" thick footing need to start at the 30" mark? And thanks again for the last reply!!!
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Just
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# Posted: 3 Oct 2015 09:47am
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Quoting: pcroom frost line is 30"
36 in. deep hole
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pcroom
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# Posted: 3 Oct 2015 04:03pm
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What if I'm hitting line stone at 30"" I'm having to use a 16lb bar to try and break it up and I'm not getting anywheres???
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Just
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# Posted: 3 Oct 2015 04:57pm
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That's the great thing about building your own no inspector no permit place . You get to make all the decisions and live with them .
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