Don't let people tell you that you can't do something and simply not try. They may, be wrong

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Small Cabin Forum / Cabin Construction / Don't let people tell you that you can't do something and simply not try. They may, be wrong

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Author	Message
Bzzzzzt Member	# Posted: 5 Jul 2015 09:02am Reply A couple years ago I built a water tower for our cabin. I was posting about it here for ideas and several people told me that there would be little to no pressure and that it wouldn't work the way I had planned. I therefore never hooked it up and have instead just used it as an elevated storage tank. Fast forward to now. It's looking like we may use our cabin as a place to live while we build a regular size house elsewhere on the property so I decided to get a shallow well pump and get water permanently attached to the bathroom. I got everything hooked up and realized that I needed a back flow preventer. However, I had PLENTY of pressure to take a shower with the pump turned off and just the tower pressure pushing it. Bottom line: Don't let people tell you that you can't do something and simply not try. They may, in fact, be wrong.

bldginsp Member	# Posted: 5 Jul 2015 09:23am Reply I thought I made a mistake once, but it turned out I was wrong.

bobrok Member	# Posted: 5 Jul 2015 09:57am Reply /\ How I wish I had gotten here before you because that's one of my favorite jokes Agree with you totally, Bzzzzt. It's kind of like reading on line product reviews. The majority of ppl who post do so because they have an axe to grind. I never go on line without having a salt shaker within reach.

turkeyhunter Member	# Posted: 5 Jul 2015 10:32am - Edited by: turkeyhunter Reply Quoting: Bzzzzzt Bottom line: Don't let people tell you that you can't do something and simply not try. They may, in fact, be wrong. some of the EXPERTS on here may be "online experts ONLY...only to sit in mommy's basement and type away on that PC".... and NEVER had any dealing with camps/cabins or what not...just sayin ..lol glad it worked out for you...and then again having a elevated water tank...with water running out the bottom of tank..why would it NOT work...lol

Bzzzzzt Member	# Posted: 5 Jul 2015 12:44pm Reply I'm not gonna name any names but you'd be surprised at who gives advice in here that SOUNDS like good advice on its face. From here on in I'm just going to do what seems right and just get ideas here.

rmak Member	# Posted: 5 Jul 2015 01:07pm Reply Water always runs downhill. It's the first rule of plumbing.

bldginsp Member	# Posted: 5 Jul 2015 01:25pm - Edited by: bldginsp Reply If your cabin is on more or less level ground you probably won't be able to get more than 20 feet rise with a tank on a tower. So you are dealing with 5-10 lbs pressure. One way to compensate somewhat for low pressure is with larger pipe size. My water tank is up the hill and has 35 ft rise to the camp site so (x .43 lbs per foot rise) I'm probably getting 15 lbs or so. But the main pipe coming down the hill is 1-1/4" and branches to 1", total of nearly 300'. I don't Have huge pressure but I have good flow rate and the hose will squirt 20-25 feet or so. If I had used 3/4 and 1/2" pipe I doubt it would be as good as it is, which is good enough. I guess you could say I don't take the hint very well, offering advice on a thread about how much bad advice there is on web forums. Way I see it, all the times I give good advice more than compensates for the times I think I do.

Gary O Member	# Posted: 5 Jul 2015 07:44pm Reply Quoting: Bzzzzzt Bottom line: Don't let people tell you that you can't do something and simply not try. They may, in fact, be wrong. Yeah, advice has always been a take or leave it thing with me. Heh, in regard to small cabins, seems lotsa sound, proven structural rules of construction do not necessarily come into play. However, if one plays (builds) by the rules, one does not as readily get hurt. In my case, I've shirked one of the most basic rules of construction, going into the ground for a foundation.... Yup, treated 4Xs on bricks, tied in with a 2X6 floor. Our main cabin has been sittin' on 'em for ten years....frost heave be damned. Now, before y'all go into fits and conniptions, ready to site or paste all the things that can and will happen to my abodes, I'm just sayin', there are circumstances and exceptions...and those of us who dare, who risk, based on some simple logic, have found a bit o' leeway. I think the term in place of 'wrong' should be 'leeway'. Still Those that are in the know, and share that knowledge, are doing a grand service. It's up to us whether to take it or leave it.

silverwaterlady Member	# Posted: 5 Jul 2015 09:24pm Reply Check out the water tower we built. The water pressure is better in the cabin sink than in our city house. It however does not supply enough pressure to keep the pilot light lit on our EZ Tankless shower. So we just use our gasoline powered pump. I let people tell me I can't do something than do it anyway. I'm pretty darn stubborn. Was born that way,lol.

creeky Member	# Posted: 6 Jul 2015 10:18am Reply I pretty much ignore advice. If you've seen my builds you know that. but I think there are those who just have to have a say that casts your idea into a negative light. they're omniscient you see. one of those rare great minds that can see something and immediately know the perfect solution regardless of research or knowledge. oh what a joy it is to have someone like that come visit. bob up the road built a barn and he was going to line the barn walls with vapour barrier before putting up the siding. and a guy visiting laughed at him and said he was wasting his time. so he didn't do it. now in the winter the wind whistles through the barn and he thought he might insulate and ... but there's no vapour barrier to block the wind. oh well. i say stick to the plan man. unless it's your wife. then listen carefully.

skootamattaschmidty Member	# Posted: 6 Jul 2015 06:37pm Reply Great advice Creeky.....always listen to the Mrs. Seriously though, I find this forum full of great advice by many members. Some of the advice I think is "in a perfect world" advice and we are not all in a perfect world. Having said that, I think the advice is worth noting, and then with more research you can make an informed decision as to how to take that advice and how to proceed for your circumstances. I honestly feel that members of this forum are giving, what they feel is straight forward, honest advice in their opinions and there are no nefarious motives to lead people astray. When advice is asked for, people will give it. It's up to the asker how to use that advice and apply it to their situation. Having said all that, there are definitely forums out there and other internet advice that I definitely take with a grain of salt!

Salty Craig Member	# Posted: 6 Jul 2015 06:48pm Reply Y'all are turning this into a Dear Abby column. Ya ask a question because ya wonder. People throw their advise at it. 99% of the time the only help you will get is an opinion. Ya go to the doctor, he runs a damn practice. Same with the dentist. And attorneys. Moral of the story?? Nobody is as smart as they think they are, or as dumb as you think they are. Let's keep it friendly and stop whining. We will all live with our decisions and should never blame a bad choice on the advise of a fellow forumer. Salty Craig

rockies Member	# Posted: 6 Jul 2015 07:42pm Reply I've worked for 30 years as an architect. Got a degree in interior design, too, because I noticed that a lot of my fellow architecture classmates were only concerned with square footage (get to the square footage needed and then wrap a wall around it-done!) Needless to say, most of their buildings were shaped like a rectangle or an "L". I felt that buildings, in particular houses, should grow out of the functions needed, not some pre-ordained style. So I followed the designs of Frank Lloyd Wright, the Craftsman movement, organic architecture, etc. and without it all getting weird (hobbit houses, corn cobs, free flowing mud architecture, etc). Now, I find after a lifetime of loving architecture and small houses, I couldn't give away advice to people even if I paid them. They have the internet now, so why use an architect? Architects are so expensive, and pompous, and into building monuments to their own ego while steam-rollering the poor helpless client. I see more bad crap built by novices who don't know a thing about the building code, natural lighting, room function or aesthetics. "Whatever's fast and cheap!" is their rallying cry. And worse yet, they don't care. "So what if it's ugly or poorly built? It's my land and my money". I've learned not to offer solutions, or even advice anymore. All I do is provide a link to an online product or service, and if they want to look, good for them. When they start having rot and mould and structural issues later on because the dream is starting to turn into a nightmare, maybe then they'll listen.

rmak Member	# Posted: 6 Jul 2015 09:34pm Reply Rockies, I'm really of two minds when I read your post. On the one hand I hate to see crap being built and wish there was more control and a little aesthetic consideration when constructing something that blights our beautiful lands. On the other hand I think a lot of building codes and inspections are revenue generators for government and create a closed club of people who sell their "expertise". This make it nearly impossible for the ordinary man/woman to do their own thing and exercise their freedom. On any given day I feel either one way or another. I am grateful that guys like Bldginsp, Mt. Don and Toyota helped me with some of my cabin issues for free. I certainly can't afford an architectural consult.

rayyy Member	# Posted: 7 Jul 2015 12:21pm Reply When I first started planning to build this cabin,so many people told me I was nuts.But you know what,,,they come to visit me now and say,,,this is sooooo cool!I get this reaction all the time,,,,ain't no way you are off the grid.You got lights,frig,stove,microwave,toaster,blender,A/C,fans,TV,computer,internet,cd player,dvd/vcr player,washer/dryer.

creeky Member	# Posted: 7 Jul 2015 01:16pm Reply rockies. it's not just the drawing that counts it's the hammer swinging. a perfectly designed off grid home that meets code or design x on paper ain't worth the paper if it don't got that swing. i've always really liked your ideas and designs. as i've said many times before. but build something and let us see it. and then come live on it. i've got a bunch of land and need a 14x20 small house rental. i have a tractor with back hoe. come and build it. live in it. you provide plans and materials and I'll provide labour, tools, etc. smile. btw. i have two parcels. anybody else? as rayyy sez exactly right. we build to what we need. and it works. what I'd add is: my buildings ... wildly out of whatever ... are built to erl spec. erl=estimated remaining lifespan. which for me is 15 years. and they work. so guess why i like lithium batteries. 50% discharge = 15 years full service life. duh. You know, on this site you'll see real stuff from real builders. rockies has always had great ideas. there are two builders that I like; Don_p for ideas: but mostly in partikular OwenC. And lots of good stuff from other folks who are actually building. but for themz as what ain't building but have lots to say. meh. tho. maybe some of them that give themselves names that make them sound like they know what they're talking aboot. and there's been very recent posts about this. a couple of them have actually got off the "borrow ideas" and steal sources wagon and started building ... ain't it amazing how their advice changes. okay. now it's a time out for creeky.

rockies Member	# Posted: 7 Jul 2015 09:10pm Reply Well, thank you for the compliment, creeky. As an architect, I've certainly worked enough hours designing peoples dream homes, and I've dealt with my fair share of nutty clients with unrealistic expectations who always wanted more, more and MORE! 8000 sq feet for 2 people? Well, it's got low-flow shower heads and bamboo floors, so it's environmentally friendly. U-huh. Then I got into the small house movement, and now cabins. I love the idea of building just enough and no more, but I also feel that just because you're building small or have very little money doesn't mean that you should settle for a slapped together shack out in the woods that may or may not last 10 years. You can build in stages or even store everything you need in advance until you finally get out onto your land, but at least plan it properly and then get a second opinion before you actually pick up a saw or a hammer.. Unfortunately, as the internet has become the "go-to god" for information, the average person gets lost in an avalanche of babble and winds up so confused you can't blame them for wanting to simply ignore all the "expertise" on the net. However, the worst people are the ones who don't even care what the right solution is. They just build whatever they feel like as cheaply as possible. No headers over the doors? FINE! Undersized roof rafters? FINE! The roof leaks? Pour a bucket of tar over it! FINE! Ugly little trappers shack? FINE! My money, my land. Lots of city planners will be willing to have a look at your plans and offer advice, often for free. I certainly am willing to offer advice for free, and I don't mind if you ask. But please, don't just head off to Home Depot with a sketch on the back of a napkin and expect you're going to have the cabin of your dreams in 2 or 3 weekends. it will be a mould infested dump within 2 seasons, and then you'll be asking why. Rant rant rant, the boys are marching......

Gary O Member	# Posted: 7 Jul 2015 09:17pm Reply Quoting: rockies don't just head off to Home Depot with a sketch on the back of a napkin and expect you're going to have the cabin of your dreams that's me....guess I dream small somehow....somehow, the cabin is tighter'n a drum, snugger'n a rug....after ten years

AK Seabee Member	# Posted: 7 Jul 2015 09:47pm Reply Most of the folks on this site are farther ahead than I so I do not profess to have all the answers. I do however enjoy this community of like minded individuals so may speak up if I see a proposal a fellow builder may regret down the road. On the flip side, life is short and some just dont have the time or funds to build to accepted standards. I get that. Do what makes you happy. I see shacks slapped together with no foresight last while properly engineered and constructed structures fail due to flood, fire, insects or vandalism. Puts things in perspective for me. Keep posting and I will keep reading. 😉

SandyR Member	# Posted: 8 Jul 2015 04:37pm - Edited by: SandyR Reply I wish my husband would always listen to me, lol. Sometimes he ends up having to do something over again while admitting he should have listens to me. I don't always listen to him either, though. Maybe the people giving out bad advice tried the projects before with no success, so they automatically say it won't work for someone else either. Maybe they didn't do their project correctly or just gave up too soon. I agree, try it yourself. Next week the two of us are putting in our deck at the cabin alone..... All three of our boys will be away at various sports and scout camps for the week. We have never had the chance to go alone. I hope the deck goes up without an issue, but if it rains the whole week that's ok too

Salty Craig Member	# Posted: 8 Jul 2015 04:43pm - Edited by: Salty Craig Reply Gary O You can build with quality techniques regardless of the shape or aesthetics. rockies So if it looks like crap it will mold? Sounds reasonable. SandyR Hopefully just enough rain to take a break

rockies Member	# Posted: 8 Jul 2015 08:16pm Reply Yes, if it looks like crap it will mold. Why? Because if it looks like crap it's usually because it was built in a hurry, built with no plan in place, built with whatever was available at the time, or the style is unusually complex and "quirky". Then you get funny angles in the roofline, areas to hold water, poor flashing details, wrong products used, or the building is simply not strong enough to resist the water, wind, or snow load. Things shift, gaps open up, water gets in, mold and rot follows, and that one of a kind cabin is now a candidate for a really nice bon-fire. I suppose I'm the voice of "doom and gloom", but it really doesn't take much more thought, time, effort or money to make the difference between a 15 year pile of crap and a 100 year family heirloom that's a joy to pass on to your descendants.

Salty Craig Member	# Posted: 8 Jul 2015 08:38pm Reply rockies Quality is quality. Junk is junk. I can build an ugly cabin that will be absolute quality. I could also build a professionally designed cabin and not apply quality craftsmanship or proper materials and you have just this...."A beautiful piece of junk". Sure I appreciate beautiful design. Sure I appreciate a craftsman's touch. But let's remember....many people utilize what is available to make their dream come true of owning a cabin. Sometimes it's on the back of dad's farm because even land ownership is financially prohibited. I for one will not throw anyone under the bus for building a cabin from scraps. It's a way to learn, and also builds great character. My cabin was built new from the ground up on a piece of vacation property that I bought and don't need. Then the mood struck me to buy another piece of property, that to this day I still haven't done anything with. Moral of the story? It warms my heart to see proud, happy people posting pictures of their "huts". They appear to not have the high level of misery that many "professionals" live with. New, old, full of mold.... I love them all!! Salty

rockies Member	# Posted: 8 Jul 2015 08:58pm - Edited by: rockies Reply New, old, full of mold.... I love them all!! I don't love them all, at least not the ones full of mold. I think I'm leaving the impression that unless you use an architect, or a professional contractor, or buy the latest, greatest, most expensive materials then your cabin is crap. That's very far from the truth. I do agree with you, Salty, that many "professionals" build very bad buildings, and that complete novices can put up an amazing home that lasts for generations. What I dislike are the people who don't care. They slap everything together any old way, using whatever scrap material they have lying around, and then after a few years even they finally see that it's crap, but they simply shrug and say "So what? That's the next guys problem". I say "Do the research". Find out what size rafters and posts you need for your climate. Learn about insulation, vapor barriers, flashing and sealing. Plan for wind and snow load. Take a bit more time and put in more effort to understand not just the design process but also the building process. Don't create a quirky, weird roof because it looks "cool" and not care where the water is going to go. Don't built it on top of "any old foundation" and expect it to last. Do your research. As I've said before, building small with little money doesn't mean that you have to be trapped living in a cramped, ugly shack. Anyone can do amazing things with less, as long as they do the proper research first.

Salty Craig Member	# Posted: 8 Jul 2015 09:19pm Reply rockies People who don't care are a blight to the human race. I don't like em either. Not caring is a character trait that will be noticeable in all aspects of said persons life. Health, hygiene, car, family, etc. Yes, you did come across as a know it all who must be hired or project will be an absolute disaster. Thanks for clearing the air. I was hopeful that that wasn't the real you. Cabin ownership starts with a dream. If you plan to spend money, research carefully and do it right. If a scrap plywood rain shelter is all that can be achieved, by all means.....proceed. Learn a thing or two, then kick it up a notch next go around. Health and safety issues aside, a crappy cabin beats a good tent....hands down. Salty

Gary O Member	# Posted: 8 Jul 2015 10:00pm Reply A poorly built cabin won't last. Neither will its inhabitants. Just an evolutionary process...thinning of the herd. However, there's a bit of a difference in someone wanting to design/plan/build on their own. How to explain..hmmm I could have someone build something Or I could build from a proven plan Or I could go nuts with getting advice Or I could sketch a few things, consider soundness of structure with basic logic and models, and build...from the mind up...my mind. I guess with me, its pure ownership...something from within...only me...like a pioneer...with battery powered tools. I admire you folks in the profession. But, I get a bit chafed with a continuation of rants...and they are rants. Let it go. A poorly built cabin won't last. Neither will its inhabitants.

Salty Craig Member	# Posted: 8 Jul 2015 10:43pm Reply Pardon me for defending the inexperienced pioneer

Gary O Member	# Posted: 8 Jul 2015 10:48pm Reply Heh, I don't even know who I'm sayin' it too...just wanted to get that out there. I have yet to see anything offensive coming from you, pard. I'm going to go have a PB&J...and milk now....then off to beddy bye

SandyR Member	# Posted: 8 Jul 2015 10:51pm Reply A crappy cabin is better than.......nothing. I grew up with a crappy cabin. It sure beats a tent any day. I was always happy there.

rmak Member	# Posted: 9 Jul 2015 08:18am Reply You know, Gary, you can construct a pretty sloppy PB & J sandwich too. I had one with too much jelly that got the bread soggy and the whole thing kind of collapsed in my hands. I'm thinking we should regulate the amount of ingredients or at least have some type of standardized cross-bracing with toothpicks.

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