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greenacarina
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# Posted: 25 Mar 2015 10:15pm
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Hi everyone!
I recently bought a house on some acreage and am beginning the process of building a large shop. I have started clearing all the brush and whatnot from the area that I want to build on only to find that the whole area is VERY wet and muddy...and even has a small stream running though it (although seasonal, I believe).
So, I think I will need to bring in a lot of crushed rock (large and small) to give myself a solid base to build on. I am hoping someone can enlighten me as to what size rock I will need and to what depth I will need to apply it...and how best to deal with the little stream?
Thanks!
Chris
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greenacarina
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2015 02:34pm
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Forgot to mention this is with the intention of building a pole barn on a slab.
Anyone???
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rwoods
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2015 04:55pm
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I would think that you need to talk to some local contractors at the site and get their opinions and see what makes sense to you this is to hard to judge without seeing
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 28 Mar 2015 05:02pm
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part of me wants to say. i would wave a magic wand and say abracadabra.
I don't see a pole barn on a slab. so you'll build a pole barn and then you'll put a concrete floor in?
my property is very wet and muddy. so. what i've learned is fabric is your friend. you have to put fabric down to keep the stone you put down from washing away.
so i would
a) build some place else. really. a stream?
b) put in a fabric liner. some many inches of 3" or big crushed rock. some kind of topper. and some kind of water diversion stuff. by my technical description you can probably tell I'm hoping someone has a better idea here.
c) Paul built a large shop with a concrete pad and it freezes here. deep and for long periods of time. his pad is shattered. he has some great looking mountain ranges. Jim also has a large shop. keeps his shop heated all winter long. he has 18" of gravel below. his pad is still okay after 8 years.
neither has a stream.
hope this helps.
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Littlecooner
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2015 10:40am - Edited by: Littlecooner
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If you can not relocate the site of this shop to the other side of your house, due to some other items you did not mention, then there are several options. Research "spring boxes" on the net and see what you find (I have not done this, so do not know what you will find). If you want to get the spring water away from your site, you can build a spring box around and over the spring, various ways, but using geotextile fabric as a liner to your excavated hole around the spring to keep soil out, put washed stone in a large hole and the pipe the water out from in under your building site. If you put down 2-4 inches of crusher run and either water it in or let mother nature water it in and compact when wet ( use your vehicle if nothing else) then it will set up almost like concrete. After it sets up, go purchase a few bags of mortar mix and sprinkle on top, water in and let set up and you will have a floor almost like concrete, just not near as expensive. Then if you get frost heave, etc. with use, just go pick up a new bag of mortar mix and repair any stress cracks in the floor.
Its a shop, and you do not say what you want for a finished floor. dirt or gravel? Depending on what you are using the shop for after construction would depend on the size of aggregate to use for the mud. I would skim off the topsoil to remove the organics, lay down a layer of geotextile fabric and bring in some stone, I personally would use a "crusher run" mix of the largest size that is available at your local quarry. If you were planning on keeping cars or large equipment in the shop, I would put down a layer of large stone (2" to 6" size for each stone) in a layer first after removing the organics, work it into the wet area, then overlay with fabric and the crusher run. This could create a very stable floor to the shop. the spring box (French drain) is the secret to getting rid of the water underneath.
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greenacarina
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2015 02:35pm
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OK, I didn't want to get too deep into the details if it wasn't relevant. My goal is to build a 40 x 60 shop. I want to build it on the south edge of my property so as not to encroach on my yard any more than I have to. I want it to be a reasonable distance from the existing driveway, but not too close to the road (less visibility).
The stream I am dealing with is very seasonal and at it's worst is probably 2 feet wide by a few inches deep. I have the option of moving the build site a bit east, away from the stream, but I would then have to take down a few large trees.
The purpose of the shop is half automotive (working on my cars, installing a lift, etc...) and half gameroom...so a finished concrete floor is the goal. Sorry for the verbiage error....I do understand that a pole barn isn't built "on" a slab.
One of my larger concerns is the first layer of rock that I put down and how much it will sink into the mud...do I just keep packing it down til it doesn't sink anymore?
Also, the area that I would like to build on is a bit of a depression already. Other than removing roots and organic junk, is there any reason I would need to dig this out any further, or can I just start adding layers of rock? If the floor of my shop ended up somewhat above grade, would that create any real problems?
AND...having never done anything like this before and not having had to get a building permit...how much site prep can I do before I need to get a permit? And how long is a building permit usually good for? (I would guess a year...)
I am in NW Washington state, for what it's worth.
Thanks
Chris
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Don_P
Member
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# Posted: 29 Mar 2015 07:43pm
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Get the permit before you break ground, what you just described is the playground of a geotech engineer so the first thing is to see what they will require. If the treed site is better and not in a drainage then I suspect it'll be a no brainer unless you have money to throw at it. They will be able to tell you how long the permit is good for.
A post frame building (modern, engineered, pole barn) can be built on the slab or thru it. It depends on how it is designed. Be prepared to have this engineered, usually by a company that supplies the posts, metal siding and roofing, etc.
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Littlecooner
Member
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2015 04:53pm
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Don is correct on the Geotech engineer playground, that wet weather spring may be more of a headache (read "money pit") than you care to deal with. Understand the desire to keep the large trees for shade and landscaping. All this is a tough call without seeing the sight, but go careful. If you are going to obtain a permit, then do it now, before any construction begins. Is you 2 foot wide stream of water rising out of the ground at the location of the pad or is it just running thru the area in question where you could create a diversion ditch around the building? I think I would cut the trees or reduce the size of the building based on what you have presented.
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creeky
Member
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2015 05:25pm
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littlecooner. that was funny ... to me. my property in the spring is one step above swamp. and it ain't a big step. so surface water is nothing compared to the river running through the soil.
thanks too Don. I didn't know you could build a pole barn on top of a slab. After building a real tiny one tho. I like 'em. Easy to build. Easy to insulate.
green. sorry. i realized later i was being a bit particalar about the "on." sometimes you gotta read the intent. doh.
i'd go talk to some of the local guys with big shops. they'll have dealt with the problems before. if paul had talked to jim he wouldn't have a mountain range in his shop...
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Don_P
Member
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# Posted: 31 Mar 2015 11:32pm
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creeky,
I think it is nfba.org
nat'l frame builders association, they are the post frame folks. There is alot of info on their website if you poke around.
I don't believe I've had occasion to use the term pole barn in front of an inspector 
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greenacarina
Member
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# Posted: 1 Apr 2015 10:03pm
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Great info everyone!
Friend of mine mentioned something I hadn't considered.....
I do want to preserve my trees and all...but we do get fall and winter wind storms around here that take trees down.
I really don't want a tree crushing my shiny-new pole building.
So, taking out 1 or 2 trees is starting to look like the most sensible solution.
Also, I will see if I can get some pics posted here....I know my descriptive skills aren't the best 
Thanks everyone!!
Chris
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