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LastOutlaw
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2015 07:10pm
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I've seen a couple posts recently where someone was using a storage building for a cabin and others asked about moisture, mold and mildew in them. Is this a common problem and if so, how does one avoid this?
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felineman
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2015 08:27pm
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Condensation causes mold and mildew. Proper insulation with a vapor barrier. Water penetration must be stopped at the source. If its a frame building then you need to stop the water from getting in, If its a log structure then you need to properly chink the gaps. Not much to go on. Also NEVER clean mold with bleach. Mild dish soap and cloth. If its heavy growth make sure to use proper mask and open every window while cleaning. Run a fan in a doorway or window to remove any airborne mold spoors.
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LastOutlaw
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2015 08:50pm - Edited by: LastOutlaw
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Its a wooden storage building. Would have a shingle roof. Haven't purchased it yet. Wanting information to insure we don't have problems down the road. It will come in as a framed wood building with outside walls and no inside walls. We will be doing insulation and inside paneling or drywall ourselves. .
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2015 09:52pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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What is the roof type? The typical gambrel roof (barn) makes a shed difficult or impossible to do a good job of insulating the roof. That can lead to moisture issues.
Are you placing it in an area with permiits and inspections? A converted shed may not qualify or pass. Call the officials if in doubt.
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LastOutlaw
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# Posted: 26 Feb 2015 10:27pm - Edited by: LastOutlaw
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Hi Don,
Yes it is a 2 story barn type shed.No attic at all and the siding will be on the frame already making it impossible to install moisture barrier before the siding goes on.
http://www.888tuffshed.com/products_prices.cfm?ModelID=TBD-800&pg=Prices
No permits needed here.
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22hemi13
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# Posted: 27 Feb 2015 11:47am
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I would look into using foam insulation. I have a 12x28 building. $2,2000 to salty entire thing. Underside also included. Then it's just a nice tight seal. Waterproof the exterior. Ie caulk paint or sealant
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Don_P
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# Posted: 27 Feb 2015 11:50am
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There should be a weather resistive barrier under the siding, the vapor barrier, if there is one, goes on the warm side of the wall. Heat moves from the warm side to the cold and carries whatever moisture is in the air with it on that journey, the humidity in the air. Since air can hold less moisture when it is cold vs when it is warm if the humid air contacts something cold, below the dew point, before it passes out of the wall, that humidity will condense as liquid water on that cool surface. If that wood rises above about 25% moisture from the condensation it can support mold growth or decay fungi. In other words usually it is not leakage causing the problem, it is a humid environment, showers, humidifiers, cooking and breathing, or even a high humidity climate and a cool cabin. Generally if you keep the temperature up and replace the air, venting the humid air in exchange for drier air it can be controlled. A gambrel shed roof is usually about impossible to vent so should have foam installed, a "hot roof".
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 27 Feb 2015 12:26pm
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I looked at their site & all the photo's they provide, appears they are attaching the SmartSiding directly to the 2x4 wall structure. So there is no sheathing + siding on top. Normally external wrap would go over the sheathing in between it & the siding. Maybe they have an option in that regards but the SmartSiding stands up really well and is water proofed.
Another option may be to have them install a layer of 1" Rigid Foam between the 2x4 studs & Smartsiding giving a thermal break & external insulation & water barrier.
My own personal take, I would use 3" Foam in the walls, tight fit with low expansion spray foam to seal any cracks / openings. The roof (I could not find it specified) appears to be 2x6 which is good as extra insulation in the roof makes it more livable year round. Again, I'd go with foam panels and use up the extra to get the most R value you can in there.
Foam has the advantages that it will not retain any moisture, bugs don't like it, mice won't nest in it and mold, mildews are a non-issue. But how you apply vapour barrier & moisture control changes if you go this route versus a breathable "batt" insulation... IF you use Batts, use Rockwool as opposed to fiberglass, Roxul stands up better to critters & moisture.
Foam is more expensive than batt type insulation but if you shop around and keep eyes peeled it can be found very reasonably priced. Craigslist, Kijiji, Local "trader" magazines often have recovered foam panels, overages, sales etc...
for example: I bought 80 sheets of (2'x4') 4" thick XPS (R22) for $9 ea versus 35 in store. I also bought 6 lifts (60 pcs) of (4'x4'), 5" thick bonded foam panels for $10 ea versus the 55 they sell for... These are 4" High Density Foam with 1/2" of bonded HD fibre on both faces used for big commercial structures.
As for roofing, I's suggest light coloured tin roofing if that's an option, especially if you intend to capture rain for use but also because of it's longevity compared to asphalt / fiber tiles.
Many places require HRV (Heat Recovery Ventilation) systems which vary a lot in costs but for a small system they aren't too much and are actually do a lot for managing moisture, while recovering the heat loss when bringing in fresh air... Much depends on how you are powering the cabin and how your heating / cooling it.
I like the look of the TBD-800 which is very similar to what I am putting up in the next few months but that TR-1600 Cabin/shed they have there has potential to be much more from what I saw in their photo gallery...
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LastOutlaw
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2015 08:31am
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The wife fell in love with the tbd800 as she had plans from the beginning for the floor plan. I doubt I could get a spray foam truck to come in there as it is 10 miles in once you leave pavement and takes about 1 hour to drive with 2 water crossings on the way. After looking at the home depot web site I don't see 4" thick xps board available. It looks like 4'x8'-1" thick r-5 is the thickest they have at $17.60 per sheet
I'm curious of the cost of spray foam kits to do it myself. I think it might get outrageous. I haven't seen an option for metal roof but I would definitely like to have that as we recently found out from a neighbor who put in a well that the water production of his well was very poor after drilling almost 400 feet through rock to get to it. Rainwater harvest is going to be a must have.
We plan on a metal roofed barn though so that will be used for some rainwater collection.
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Don_P
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2015 09:18am
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The spray foam kits are pretty pricey for the coverage. I'm sure HD can get 2", we have Lowes here and I recently bought quite a bit from them for ~$32/sheet, we also blew through about 50 cans of great stuff, that adds up. We intentionally cut about 1/2" narrow for the two layers to leave enough room to get the straw in all the way around the sheets for a good seal. If you are concerned there are temp/humidity data loggers that aren't very expensive that can monitor what's happening in your absence.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2015 10:43am
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I'm not sure about doing the whole thing with any of the spray foam kits they sell. The cost would be over the top. That being said, if used for sealing up around foam boards and those difficult nooks and crannies, likely more cost effective on a matter of scale when compared to spray bombs.
I found my foam deals through Kijiji which I'm not sure is available in the states, I don't know. It's sorta like Craigslist. I found my stuff at 2 commercial contractors which I would not have found otherwise.
I would not be surprised if you could customize the TR-800 but what would they charge is the big question. Would be well worth asking to find out, certainly can't hurt to ask... maybe when talking to them & explaining what your up to may present alternate options too.
Spray Foam kits @ Home Depot & Lowes:
[url=http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchView?catalogId=10051&lan gId=-15&storeId=10051&N=0&Ntk=level1&Ntt=Touch 'n Foam Professional&Nty=1&D=Touch 'n Foam Professional&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Dx=mode+matchallpartial]Home Depot - Touch 'n Foam Professional[/url]
[url=http://www.lowes.ca/search/default.aspx?q=touch %27n foam professional&atb=attr_brand=touch %27n foam professional]Lowes - Touch 'n Foam Professional[/url]
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LastOutlaw
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# Posted: 28 Feb 2015 11:16am
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Don, the plan is to move in full time fairly soon after it is set up. We are looking at homesteading there, hence the barn for small livestock.
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