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rturpin
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 01:04pm
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I first would like to say thanks for all of the great information i have found on this site. I have been reading for the last couple of days and can't believe how much i have learned.
I just purchased my families original homestead that includes the home my great grandfather built in 1904. It is a beautiful farm home that is in need of renovation.
My wife and i have decided that we would like to live onsite while we renovate the house. This property has a "summer kitchen" on it that we would like to convert into a cabin to live in. It is in very good shape and i have already replaced the roof. It is a 17X24 structure with a hipped roof. It is framed with real 2x4's and has plaster walls inside. We had to tear down the plaster ceiling due to damage from a leaky roof.
We would like to add a sleeping loft but with the roof style and 9' walls there won't be much space. I had though about lowering the loft below the walls, but am concerned about losing the cross bracing the current ceiling joists provide. Has anyone dealt with this type of setup before? This is not how i would build it if i was starting from scratch, but sometimes you have to work with what you have. This will eventually turn into a guest house/ office when we are done with the main house.
Thanks in advance for any help, and sorry for the long post.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 02:31pm
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Working on a balloon framed building is not quite the same as current buildings. The simplest thing is to build a sub-structure for the loft which puts the ceiling on the first floor @ 7'. Cutting into the walls and changing the structure can create many many issues. You have to be careful, cautious & very attentive to the structure. (BTDT & Learned the hard way).
Showing us photo's of the building, structure / framing, rafters / joists will get you better answers... but if you have a doubt about doing something, then likely best not to attempt it... until you have all the info in hand and expertise that knows what can and can't work.
You may also want to cut a section of plaster & lath out to see what is really in & behind the walls. My last reno was a house built in the late 1800's. Total gut to exterior timbers... It had exterior plank onto 2x4 balloon frame... in the frame, was a 2" thick fill of mortar (between outside clapboard & 1" filler board) then a 1" airspace, then lath & plaster.
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rturpin
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 02:42pm
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I will take pictures and post tonight. You are right it will be much clearer with photos. The walls are open. Wood siding on the outside, with lathe and plaster on the inside. I have already checked that.
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rturpin
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 02:49pm
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i found some old pictures of the outside. These are from when we first bought the house. It has been repainted and had a complete new roof installed since these were taken. I will take interior photos when i get home from work tonight.
sk1.jpg
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sk4.jpg
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 03:59pm
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Not much room from top of Window / Door frames to ceiling.
Looks like clapboard but ain't... I'd recognize the corners a mile away... Cement or Fibre board - possibly that nasty asbestos board... hope not.
I'd wager a guess... Exterior Cladding onto 1xXX plank onto 2x4 with dead airspace to Lath & Plaster. (note the plaster may have asbestos in it)
SPECIAL NOTE !!! Quite often in old places such as this, you will see some weird "board" sheeting behind where the stove / woodstove is/was... (sometimes also where the chimney is going through the floor / walls / roof ceiling) Looks like a type of fiber board.. IT ISN'T !!! 95% of the time it is Asbestos Heat Panel / Shielding. NASTY NASTY & NASTY !!!
The fast way to know... use a water spray bottle (with a drop of dish soap in the water), wet it down on a corner, wearing rubber glove, pull a little piece off if it is tan or grey in colour and long fibres which are light & fluffy... You need extra cautions & care removing that stuff. Do wear a mask, you don't want to breath it in.
I was exposed to this cr@p a few times - do yourself a favour & be smart, we know what this junk is, what it does to us and what to do about it now... and how to safely handle it. We didn't get it 20 & 30 years ago...
And one last point. You do not mention kids.. If you have'm keep them out of there till you are 100% certain it is safe for them.... Asbestosis is not something anyone should have to deal with.
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rturpin
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 04:32pm
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Thanks for the warnings, I am nearly certain this place is asbestos free it is far to old. I will check though. We don't have any kids yet. The siding is wood, i haven't seen fiber anywhere in this building. It had been sitting untouched for over 100 years when we got it. Other than the missing stove and sink, paint and roof it hasn't had any work done to it and hasn't been modified since being built. I am not sure when it was built but it was there in photos that were taken in 1904.
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rturpin
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 04:50pm
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as for space above windows you are correct there isn't much. I will get the exact measurements tonight. I really appreciate the advice so far. I have done lots of construction, but this renovation work is new to me. I normally wouldn't do it, but i feel it is only right for me to bring life back to the house my great grand father built. I am attaching the only photo i have with me of the big house and it is crappy, but gives an idea.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 05:27pm
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I think it's great to bring a good old place back to life.
I wasn't trying to scare or anything, just warn of the unknown which can bite ya in the backside... Old buildings with unknown history means god only knows what's under the paint and floors & in the walls.
Redoing old places is a puzzle to say the least ! nothing square, nothing straight... Ohhh the memories .... LMAO Your creativity "will" be tested...  which is a big part of the fun too....
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rturpin
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 05:29pm
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i understand better to be careful. I am looking forward to it, strangely the crazy problems are relaxing to me.
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rturpin
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 09:42pm
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Here are a few photos of the interior of the building. Sorry for the quality, but i don't have lighting in there and wont be home in the light for a few more days. All suggestions are welcome. Here is a link to an album of the photos. https://plus.google.com/photos/103210204086116745413/albums/6091775528779185121
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Don_P
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 10:40pm
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I doubt the ceiling joists are up to being a floor, and the roof doesn't really work for a loft. One approach would be to remove it down to the top plate and set attic trusses that rise from cantilevered overhangs.
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rturpin
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2014 10:50pm
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I realize it doesn't set up for an ideal loft. I was planning on replacing or reinforcing the ceiling joists as they are not up to the task of supporting a loft. I wish the roof was a diferent shape, but I just had it completely replaced so tearing it off is not an option. I would have done it differently if I would have thought we were going to be living in it at the time.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2014 07:14am
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The structure itself looks fairly sound & solid and looks like it's been breathing well (lots of airflow) so unlikely much rot or nasties lurking in the roof area. Doesn't like like there is much room for any kind of real loft there unless you open an end of the roof up.
Should'have, Could'have & Would'have will only make you crazy in hindsight, better not go there... It's more about what Can'I, Would'I and Should'I now...
At a quick glance (a real inspection & eval would be needed) the roof appear to be independent of the walls... meaning sitting on top of the walls (or floating as some call it) and not interconnected to them without top plates etc... That in one sense would allow you to raise the roof up by putting a short wall up and plunking the roof back down... but work... and more work... added to a heap of head scratching.
With 17x24 and no kids involved, likely the simplest & best solution would be to give up the idea of a loft and consider a small efficient bedroom in a corner. @ 408 square feet it's not that small... sure would be a wee bit tight depending on the amount of "stuff" you stuff in there but if you keep it simple & light for the period of reno's it certainly could be workable for a couple.
Possibly consider getting a Sea Can (Shipping Container) to store your extras... You know, if you have something that you haven't used in 6 months or more, it's unlikely that you really need it (snow shovels etc excluded) so that stuff could be in Temp Storage.
You don't mention your general location geographically but you may consider that if your going to be in there for a year or so while rebuilding the big house, insulation, wiring, decent windows should be considered...
Personally, I'd pull the plaster & lath off, make required repairs to the structure, insulate, strap & drywall it after I put in fresh wiring & plumbing etc... I say strapping because the lath does add structural strength & rigidity to the walls so if you remove that, you need something to replace it, alternately you could add in fire stops & bracing (but that is a real PITA).
Just my thoughts - thinking out loud & brainstorming. Hope it helps.
Steve
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Don_P
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2014 07:33pm - Edited by: Don_P
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It looks insufficient space for the cost involved. You need insulation space in there somewhere. I agree with Steve on a seperate storage building. If that won't work I'd bump out with a T or L footprint and put a valley and hipped end roof over it. Lots of work and cost if this is a temporary situation. Does it have a good foundation under it?
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rturpin
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# Posted: 15 Dec 2014 02:44pm
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Thanks for all of the advice. Sorry for the slow response, but i don't get online much during the weekends. We already have extra storage lined up. Water and sewer are being ran to the building as we speak. I pulled about 30% of the plaster and lathe this weekend. The frame is great shape. We are running complete new electrical, insulating everything, and replacing the windows in the process. When everything is finished this building is going to serve as my office that is why i don't want to take up space with a bedroom. We are still looking at the possibility of a small sleeping only loft. It would be tight, but i think it might work.
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