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larryh
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2010 09:24am
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This is more than a big verse's little store problem. For many years now the quality of things have deteriorated. It used to be that finished lumber for exterior framing and sills would last for a very long time. Now I find that after a few years the same appearing woods start to rot, often very badly. I had an over 100 year home in the city for a while, the sills where huge blocks and almost none of them had more than a minimal amount of rotten places. After we put in new windows here in the country the lumber used for sills in the windows rotten badly in a few years. Same for the door frames, it just falls apart.
I don't know it this is due to lumber shortages forcing companies to use lesser grades of wood, or a time situation where time for curing is money so they skip that part. But like nearly everything else, imported or made here, the type of quality that once was considered normal is long gone.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2010 11:15am
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It seems we're going around in circles on this. There is a pimply faced young man in the plumbing department at my Lowe's but that condition should not be held agaoinst him as he does know the ins and outs of plumbing. He seems to know as much as the older men who have worked in the trades for years. When I do run into an employee who does not know the answer to what I am asking, like I did at HD the other day, he got the answer from another person. The guy who did not know the answer to my where is question was new and I was new at my job too when I was younger. I think everyone is in that position at one time or another. We should remember that.
I love my local True Value and Ace Hardware stores. But I also like the nearby Lowe's and Home Depot. The service in all four are high quality and the staff friendly. If one finds a surly employee anywhere it is more likely that is the fault of the local managerial not the corporate office. A friend in a small town has told me tales of horror about his experiences with his local Mom&Pop store. Mom has passed away, which may be part of that problem, and Pop just doesn't seem to care about much anymore.
You can also run into people simply having a bad day; their spouse just ran off with someone else, or they've gotten tired and bored with their job and don't give a damn anyplace. They shouldn't let that interfere with their job, but it does happen because we are human. There's probably not too many of us who can make the claim to have always given 100% all the time.
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fasenuff
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# Posted: 27 Dec 2010 11:49am
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Do you work for Lowes?
Nope! Did you get fired by them?
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fthurber
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2010 07:12am
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Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech I dont have an issue with mom and pop operation, but I dont agree Home Depot and Lowes is garbage.
I guess results and evaluations will vary. I am only describing my experiences but this does not mean that all Big Box stores sacrifice quality for profit....
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 28 Dec 2010 09:27pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Not to mention, lumber is usually regional too. So Lowes or HD lumber from the SE wont make it to my area. So one region may get funny wood, another wont. I found when building was booming, the only wood I could get from HD and Lowes was this soft white stuff , ie hemlock, warped easily too. When I built my cabin, building industry was int he tank. I got nothing but first class douglas fir from the local Home Depot, no blemishes or knots or knot holes. All straight too. 2 yrs prior, this was not the case. I think the building industry get crack at the best stuff. But since they werent taking any of it, we got the good stuff.
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fthurber
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# Posted: 3 Jan 2011 07:30pm - Edited by: fthurber
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The pimply-face teenager is indeed the fault of upper management because they are always looking for ways to cut the payroll expenses. Some of the help I have gotten at the Big Box stores (when I can get it) is good and some is terrible but ALL the help get at the family-owned stores has been excellent. Why bother with the chains.
One guy who was good was a guy whose family owned a local hardware shop and the Big Boxes put him out of business. Now he works for them; how demoralizing is that?
I guess the worst example I saw was at Sears where a pimply-faced minimum-wage kid tried to help me buy a chain saw. He obviously had never used one. I foolishly bought a saw there and after some frustrating experiences with that piece of junk I went to the local Stihl store. Like night and day. I will never ever buy any equipment at a Big Box that Stihl also sells. Stihl all the way.
Another thing that ticks me off at our local HD is that they don't want to hear if you have a repair. Compare that to your local Stihl shop.
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TomChum
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# Posted: 12 Jan 2011 03:16pm - Edited by: TomChum
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Quoting: SquidLips Quoting: toyota_mdt_tech dont have an issue with mom and pop operation, but I dont agree Home Depot and Lowes is garbage. I guess results and evaluations will vary. I am only describing my experiences but this does not mean that all Big Box stores sacrifice quality for profit....
Once all the mom/pops are run out then they can jack the pricing back up. Then they will sell the (extremely profitable) nationwide business, and the next buyer (chinese?) is purchasing it, for the value of the monopoly created, and it is in their charter to go ahead and exploit the monopoly (= us).
Many can benefit somewhat, in "the now" of these big-box stores, but it won't be a benefit in the longterm. That day is coming. Don't believe that those stores are all patriotic, they're long term goal is to take everything they can from us, and reduce the number of jobs, leaving a lesser number, and suitable for pimply highschool kids. Sorry just the facts, ma'am....
I think everyone who builds a cabin should **try whenever feasible** to support the mom/pops of their area, these folks are going to save your butt someday. I do understand it's hard to pay more for the same goods, but sometimes the value doesn't end at the checkout line....
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2011 01:43pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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I did order my primary lumber package from a mom and pop store. Spend over $4000 with them in a single load. Then the rest of my materials (you always need more that what was in the original lumber package) got from Home Depot. I can tell you the wood from the mom and pops was old, twisted and varied, ie pine, spruce and fir, mostly pine. The siding (5/8" T1-11) was full of dirt stains from rain and mud splashing up on it in the pile. All the wood I got from Home Depot was perfect, kept inside, straight as an arrow, all douglas fir and no knots (clear) but I didnt buy from Home Depot because it was cheap or I wanted to rum mom and pop out of town. I bought because it was closer and I could do it on a Sunday etc.
I have went well past the basic shell at this point and use Home Depot. I'm fortunate to have the Home Depot there. Was a new store that went up about 2 yrs before I built. Its handy, still a 50 mile round trip, but its the closest game in town for me and open on Sunday. I do lots of my work on the weekends at my cabin. I have no axe to grind with mom and pops stores at all.
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97Marlin
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# Posted: 16 Jan 2011 06:22pm
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I think it is important that one patronizes the "mom & pop" stores simply because if they are driven out, the big box stores will have a monopoly and prices will rise astronomically. In my line of work, I sometimes have to deal with pharmaceuticals and, in this industry, companies have merged time and time again and monopolies are being created. When this occurs, prices rise astronomically! One drug went from $15 to $171 overnight! So, think twice before you patronize that big box store.
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fthurber
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2011 07:29pm
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Quoting: fasenuff # Posted: 27 Dec 2010 11:49 Reply Quote Do you work for Lowes? Nope! Did you get fired by them?
No. Never worked in any building supply place. I did have a wonder local hardware store with outstanding lumber and tools that was killed by Home Depot. It was a family-owned store that had been in business for 2-3 generations and it was sickening to see it replaced by crap and profiteering.
I think that the word is finally getting out or at least I hope so. I was talking to a guy at work who does a lot of building and he said it is "common-knowledge" that the big box stores sell crap. But there always seems to be a new line of suckers queued up to but the garbage.
It is good to see that Stihl has resisted the temptation to crap-ify their product. The Stihl shops are one of the few places left to get quality and service.
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Gary O
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2011 08:36pm
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Quoting: SquidLips Do you work for Lowes?
Quoting: fasenuff Do you work for Lowes? Nope! Did you get fired by them?
Too funny
That reminds me, I need to remember to fill the gas can for the slag fires I'll be burning at the cabin............
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2011 08:47pm
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Quoting: Gary O fill the gas can
I hope you don't use 100% gasoline; I find there's too much "whoosh!" with 100%.
I like 20-25% gasoline and the rest diesel, kerosene or even used motor oil as an accelerant. Still lights good but with less gasoline the vapors don't spread out on the ground as much. I light it with one of those propane torches with the built in igniter.
We have plans to snow shoe in and burn this weekend too.
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SmlTxCabin
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2011 10:33pm
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I frequent both Home Depot and several of the local hardware stores, but I will say that there are many times that I go into the mom and pop shops and don't have what I need. I can NEVER find good tongue and groove pine and the plywood is DOUBLE at the local mom and pop shops. However I like the saw blades and small tools better at the small stores. So....Go figure. I like both.
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fthurber
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# Posted: 22 Jan 2011 09:23pm - Edited by: fthurber
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Quoting: SmlTxCabin I frequent both Home Depot and several of the local hardware stores, but I will say that there are many times that I go into the mom and pop shops and don't have what I need. I can NEVER find good tongue and groove pine and the plywood is DOUBLE at the local mom and pop shops. However I like the saw blades and small tools better at the small stores. So....Go figure. I like both.
Try your local sawmill lumber. Some of the large sawmills have finished tongue and groove. Cut out the middleman and buy direct from the sawmill.
I build with green rough-cut lumber since it is so cheap from the sawmill and it looks nice (check out the pix of my wife's studio).
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jack2343
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2011 02:16pm
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I have to add that I bought plywood from home depot awhile back and it was the worst quality. I mean the price might have been a hair cheaper than the local yard but boy did I regret that decision. Never again will I buy plywood from them. It was grade C I believe which is what I was getting before CDX ply, and I don't even know if they offer higher grades without knots
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backattheshack
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2011 10:55am
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in dec bought new cabinets for sis-in-laws new house at home depot.she was on tight budget and h.d. was having a good clearance sale on cabinets long story short they were blowing out there current line to make way for new line cool i said till the guy told me the new line was being made in CHINA really pisses me off !!!! i try to shop local but where im at im tired of gettin arse raped at local stores so i make the 65 mile one way trip to lowes or hd about once a week and save more than enough on gas in my scion xb. do have one local lumber yard that has fair prices on lumber but you cant load your own so you get what they give ya.got burned a couple times ... with some junk wood
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backattheshack
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2011 11:01am
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now i will give praise to a local salvage store in chattanooga. its called southeastern salvage.if you dont care about seconds or limited quanitys they are awsome!!! ive bought my flooring,pine t n g for walls and ceilings fixtures,decorating items and much more and prices so low i look over my shoulder make sure the cops arent following me...lol so check out your areas for stores like these may be worth your while. also check your local habitat for humanity retail stores found some deals there also
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SmlTxCabin
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# Posted: 4 Feb 2011 11:29pm
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I wish there were better salvage shops around here. I have searched, but everything I have found as far as salvage is marketed as reclaimed stuff and is way overpriced. It is very frustrating!
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Gary O
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# Posted: 5 Feb 2011 12:04am
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Quoting: backattheshack till the guy told me the new line was being made in CHINA really pisses me off !!!
That's partially what Squid has been lamenting, as most of the name brands have sold out.
Saw a lot of our name brand factorys in the main land when I was over there.
Sad thing is Chinese business is raping us and, at the same time. their own people, and all financed by every corner of the world.
Met with Aussies, Brits, Germans, Frenchys, Japanese, and South Africans.
BTW, South Africans are the best drinkers...unless you happen to be sober...then they're the worst.....
Cheers
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fthurber
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2011 08:42pm - Edited by: fthurber
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My wife had me build a closed porch on her studio and we needed plywood subflooring. Behind my back she went and bought it at Lowe's; she knows all the bad experiences we have had at the Big Box stores but she was in a hurry and said that the local family-owned place was too much of a guy store for her. She said it was their top exterior plywood...you probably know the rest. It rained a couple of night later and the rotten plywood warped and partially delaminated. As punishment she now has a wonky floor.
Never ever trust those guys with anything they can adulterate...never. OSB from Home Depot; what could be worse than that?
Those chains are run by greedy executives who get huge bonuses by cutting their costs....eventally the public will catch on...I hope
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 28 Oct 2011 09:33pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Ok, built my cabin in July, while building it, was hit with 4 huge rain storms, massive downpour. Floor sheeting got wet every time. Then walls up, upper attic floor up, another downpour. Floor wet again. Roof sheeted, another downpour. All my plywood was fine as soon as it dried out. But I didnt use OSB, all plywood which I got from Home Depot.
Now the floor did get a black stain anywhere there was metal laying on top in water, ie nails and even an imprint of a saw blade.
I know you have it in for Home Depot, my suggestion would be not to shop there. Unless you did it just to bump this thread and go on with your anti corporation tirade again. (I know this thread was way down at the bottom of the pile)
I might add, all my best wood came from Home Depot, the stuff I ordered from the local lumber yard was garbage ($5000 for my original lumber package). Mostly pine, some spruce, very little fir. Warped like it had been setting in weather. All my T1-11 sheets was full of mud stains on the ends, luckily I was paining it. The Home Depot lumber I bought was all douglas fir, inside, dry and straight as an arrow.
Not trying to bag on anyone, I'm just not seeing these quality issues with their lumber, but I know the lumber is locally grown. So you may be getting different stuff from different mills.
I might add, I hate OSB anyway, no matter where it comes from. I didnt use a sliver of it on my cabin.
Mud stained T1-11 from local lumber store
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soundandfurycabin
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# Posted: 29 Oct 2011 12:52am
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Squidlips, would you mind posting some photos of the damaged plywood and the grade stamp?
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fthurber
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 09:55pm - Edited by: fthurber
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OK. I will post this weekend. It was from Lowe's. Lowes is also the store that sold me the defective sonatubes; I poured the concrete in them and the next morning they had collapsed because the tubes were not waterproof; I was cursing them in the many long hours that it took to pull the dried concrete out of the holes; I plan to dump the mess in their lot. In desperation that weekend I made the concrete very firm/dry but when I took the paper off the column was full of air holes; bleep Lowes and Home Depot; I am so mad at them. Never ever again.
Did I post the incredible 4x6's I got from my local place? try to imagine a clear 4x6 pressure treated 12 foot beam!!!
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johng
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2011 10:13pm
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Going back through this thread it is apparent that the original poster wants to vent his failures of building materials on retailers.
Perhaps he should spend more time researching which products he needs for a specific purpose and how a product is intended to be used and less time blaming others for his ignorance.
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fthurber
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2011 09:57pm
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My point is that maybe I will have to pay a few dollars more at the local places but it will save days of trouble. For instance I wasted days of work with Lowe's defective sonatubes and bags of cement. I had to dig the collapsed tubes out and start again; I was not in a good mood. For a few bucks more I could have bought good quality ones and not waste a weekend of work.
I have no idea if this was a one-time problem at Lowes; maybe it was a bad shipment of sonatubes. As far as the plywood... my wife bought their best quality exterior plywood; it warped and partially delaminated after the first rain. The floor of her porch is all warped; we will have to lay another layer of plywood down on top of the Lowes crap.
Maybe this will never happen again and maybe you guys will have better luck. I cannot generalize for all Big Box stores or even my local store. But personally it is not worth the risk for me anymore. I don't have the time or money to have to re-do jobs. This is just my opinion; it appears that others have done well at these stores....
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