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optimistic
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2013 10:24am
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Need some help with installing plumbing for shower base.
I will need to install the drain pipe without being able to get under my cabin (it sits on 4x4 skids so no matter how much I try - I won't be able to squeeze myself in).
I have 3/4" wood floors, then 3/4" playwood subfloor, then 2x6 joists. The good thing is that my shower is in the corner of my cabin so I only have about 20-15" from where the drain needs to be until I clear the exterior wall...
Question is - how and what components do I use to do this?
I am not sure how high it needs to stick out and how I secure it to the floor. Also what components go into this.
I am going to drain it into a holding tank so I just need the pvc pipe to run outside...
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2013 10:41am
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Are you using a mfg enclosure? If so, then install it, drill hole and run your 1 1/2" drain out. Most draisn will require getting under teh shower floor area to tighten a large nut. Use the sweeper elbows not the tighter 90's units and min drop is 1/4" per foot. You do not want water to settle anywhere in the pipe or run too slow. You may have to excavate a little dirt to get access. Stay away from piers I guess. Its in the corner, so you should be OK.
Maybe a clean out stub install at your bend in case it ever gets plugged too.
Showers use 1.5" sinks usually 1.25" and sewer for toiliets are usually 4" and the drain tot he septic is 4" also.
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TwinAx
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2013 11:22am
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I just did a project like this myself. I have the clearance problem too. I bought a drain pipe that has a bit of an accordion section in the middle....like a bendy straw. Inserted it in through the tub after attaching it to the drain piece. stuck it through the hole in the floor and dug a little bit of a trench big enough for my arm and pulled the bendy straw to me and hooked a 45 on it... Then I glued my PVC pipes to that.
Hope this helps.
Miranda
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Truecabin
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2013 12:24pm
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watch out if you have a pipe then you have plumbing and one less reason you can say its a temporary structure on skids
if you carry water in then a holding tank is silly thats not enough water to worry about or maybe you just have to say it for the internet
you can freefall the water from the shower and catch most of it with a bigger pipe like 3 or 4 inch then you dont have plumbing and maybe it can be done so if somebody looks under your shed theres no plumbing attached to the shack
and i would hide the outflow too
just an idea maybe you dont care about that
the bendy straw can be eaten by rats i dont like those outside under a shack but if its easy to change no worry
i would paint any white pipes black so there hard to see but thats me
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2013 12:52pm
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If you need more room to work you can always dig. Well, that might be difficult in freezing weather. 
Shower water is generally recognized as being grey water. As such you don't need to haul it away. You could simply run a length of pipe a ways from the cabin and let it soak into the ground. That will not satisfy any inspection but it is little different than going through all the steps, getting all the required parts, the pit, etc that an approved grey water system needs. Ours extends 15-16 feet from the cabin down a slight slope and exits on the surface.
If you use white PVC paint it to prevent UV degradation.
Tubs are 1.5", showers are 2". Of course a shower in a tub is 1.5". 
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optimistic
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2013 01:21pm - Edited by: optimistic
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Thanks for help!
I wish I can dump these gray water which are perfectly fine! but going over my town's buidling code they recognize it as black water.... So does water form sinks. Very very stupid but it is what it is. My strategy is to not let anything go into the ground so if an inspector does show up - he will see that I took every measure to avoid spilling anything on the ground.
I never installed a shower base: toyota mentions a nut that connect the (I assume) base to a piece of pipe that then runs into the 2" pvc drain pipe? is that the way it works?
Also: can someone give links to the online parts needed to connect the base to the pvc pipe? I just want to understand how it works.
Another idea.... because I am having a hard time finding a shower base that will fit my space - a galvanized stock tank of 2ft wide x 4 ft long x 2ft tall - will be perfect.. hhhh. Any ideas on how I plumb that???
http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/oval-galvanized-stock-tank-2-ft-w-x-4-ft-l-x-2- ft-h-100-gal-capacity
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2013 02:20pm
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If the shower space is 24" wide look at RV shower pans.
There are 2many of those that sre 24 wide.
Example here
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optimistic
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2013 03:07pm
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Thanks don. I have 30" of space for it but I want it to be long... at least 48". didn't see anything of that size but definitely a great tip to look into rv pans!
My wife likes the galvanized stock tank idea. I just need to figure out how to plumb it as it doesn't come with any sort of drain... Any thoughts?
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2013 05:48pm - Edited by: bldginsp
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One option with limited clearance beneath is to lift the shower pan 6-8 inches off the floor, essentially build another floor above the existing, giving you room beneath. Then you can poke the drain out the wall and never go under at all. Of course you need enough head room to do this since standing in the shower you would be elevated a step or so.
Different shower drain fittings have different means of connection to pipe, so I suggest you decide on and purchase your drain fitting first then, with it in hand, see what more you need. I'm going to use a 32x32 fiberglass shower pan, cause its easy and effective. They make 30x48 fiberglass pans. You should be able to adapt a common shower drain fitting to a galvanized stock tank with a little ingenuity and a lot of Sikoflex.
I wonder about your reasoning of hooking your drains up to a tank, with the hope that an inspector will be lenient with you if he sees that you are not dumping on the dirt. Maybe, but if you are doing any kind of drain plumbing without an approved septic and permitted plumbing, they are obligated to call you on it. Such installations will be deemed a 'threat to public health' and it's hard to argue the point. If you want to show the inspector that you know what you are doing, instal a 2 inch shower trap and a vent for the trap that passes through the roof. Remember that the vent must take off the drain downstream of the trap, and be above the centerline of the drain so it takes no backwash.
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2013 07:49pm
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Opti... my plan to solve this same issue is to do what bldginsp suggested. I have the headroom, so I am going to frame in a new, higher floor under the shower area. Probably use a 2x10 or 12 and put another floor on that, then the shower.
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redlandfd
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2013 10:25am - Edited by: redlandfd
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I had a similar problem and I raised the entire floor in the bathroom with 2x8's, it worked out fine. As for the grey water tank, who knows. I have a cabin where county insisted that we drain into a tank or septic system. We've got another one where we drain the grey onto a large, raised "flower bed" and the county is fine with it. It may just depend on your inspector and how you set it up. Good luck on your project
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hueyjazz
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2013 11:28am
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Optimistic
You're building this cabin in Upstate, NY, right? I can tell you that NY is very stringent when it comes to septic and sewer systems. While they did allow holding tanks at one time it is very unlikely they will allow it now.
I believe as soon as you pump water they require some sort of septic system. Before you install the septic you have to pass a perc test. If you find out different let me know. I too and starting to rough in some of my plumbing and plan to have the well and septic installed next year.
Currently we just bring 5 gallon containers when we come. We use a backpack sprayer for showers. We have a large stock pot on the wood stove or stove for hot water. We have antique dry sink with basin and pitcher we used and a RV toilet. Even when we do get running water we will still use some of this as we do use our cabin all winter long.
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Truecabin
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2013 09:56pm - Edited by: Truecabin
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Quoting: bldginsp and a vent for the trap that passes through the roof.
and one for the sink too then they can count your fixtures from the front seat of there truck
i say dont get carried away 
or your neighbor can count the fixtures with binoculars and call the county that is a worse nightmare
stock tank is easy to drain just use a sink drain and pull the sheetmetal down to the floor
if the wife likes it you should think about liking it too
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optimistic
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2013 12:33pm
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Thanks everyone.
My philosophy is simple with this... I am trying everything in my power to allow an inspector to accept my system... I do not have a well. I do not dump water or sewer anywhere on my land.
My toilet drains directly into a 'carry along' tank on wheels which I will take and dump once it gets full my near by RV area. My grey water will also be dumped in the same fashion.
So yes, an inspector can come, see this, say it's illegal/prohibited/bad or whatever and have me correct it but he can also not do that as he sees that I made an effort in avoiding any spillage of sewer or grey water.
I need to figure out how to connect a drain to a stock tank but I think I can just use a regular one from HD. Thoughts?
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 26 Dec 2013 02:12pm
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I'm sure you will be able to figure how to attach a common drain, but the problem may be that it sticks up enough off the floor that all the water in the shower won't drain. Must be a way to deal with that.
It's kind of weird that with an RV you can have holding tanks, and that is considered legal and acceptable, but if you don't have an RV that has the tanks built in, it's not acceptable to use otherholding tanks. Hopefully, if what you are doing comes under scrutiny, and they see that what you are doing is as sanitary as a standard RV, they will be flexible with you rather than strictly enforcing the 'rules' just for the sake of the 'rules'. But, from their perspective, that then leaves them open to liability issues if they 'approve' what you are doing. Good luck.
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ChuckDynasty
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# Posted: 18 Jan 2014 09:58am - Edited by: ChuckDynasty
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I don't know if this will help you out or not with regard to grey water definition but is from State of NY website. I did not read all of the pages.
"Greywater, as defined in the 2005 law, which includes all water from bathtubs, showers, washing machines, dishwashers and sinks, but excludes discharges from toilets, urinals, and all industrial sources."
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/water_pdf/waterresue.pdf
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tverga
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2014 06:18pm
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There is no such thing as a free lunch! Get yourself a good nights sleep, wake up early and start shoveling! There is no sense in doing something half baked that is is only going to be trouble every year.
Maybe you can use the hole as a root cellar so the effort is not wasted and you will always have access.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 21 Jan 2014 06:44pm
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I would be concerned about being fined for using holding tanks at the cabin. I hope there is some way you can find out about that? From what I've read on this site NY state is really strict about waste water be it gray or black.
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wirivercabin
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# Posted: 22 Jan 2014 12:56pm - Edited by: wirivercabin
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Know nothing about black grey water rules part. But the no - clearance should not be a problem.
Not a plumber, but I have done 2 showers myself.
Neither time did I have to get under it to tighten a nut.
The drain pipe was glued up and shoved into the space so it sticks up in the location of the drain. Then the pipe is trimmed to the height needed (from above). The drain on the shower base had a nut that tightens to the base itself, then a rubber gasket seals everything to the drain pipe. the whole shower base was dropped into place from above - sealed with the gasket.
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