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swampshaman
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 12:34pm
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Has anyone used this.I know its pricey ,but everything Im reading says its easier to install than fiberglass and its virtually rodent proof/fireproof.Is that all a lot of bluster from the company or is it that good that its worth the extra outlay.My major concern is if its really rodent proof
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optimistic
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 12:48pm
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I used it... Absolutely love it. Worth the extra cost in my opinion. Very easy to use, feels very sturdy and fills the wall wonderfully, and it doesn't have that fiberglass smell that I hate..
You will breath this insulation for the life of your cabin - worth putting such inert safe product than saving a few $$$
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 12:58pm
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It's definitely more fire proof than fiberglass and foam insulations. It's mineral based, I think it is considered a non combustible. I think it doesn't have the formaldehyde content of fiberglass either, though they have reduced that in recent years. Rodents, I don't know. They like any warm space where they can burrow. It's expensive, but for small quantities they sell boxes of cut offs and shreds that are not too expensive. Have you priced it out? How much more is it than fiberglass?
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swampshaman
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 01:09pm
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loks like its about 20% higher than fiberglass."they" say that because its extruded/pulverized rock that the critters dont like to nest in it or burrow thru it.I would also have to put a vapor barrier over it as it doesnt have one.
Im pretty much convinced this is what Im going to use.Just wanted to see if it was worth the extra outlay.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 01:22pm
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Quoting: swampshaman .I would also have to put a vapor barrier over it as it doesnt have one.
depends on your climate zone.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 01:56pm
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A quick spot check of prices showed $52 for 67 sq ft of fiberglass R21,2x6 wall at 16 inch spacing, and $50 for 39 square feet of Roxul R23 same wall thick and spacing. On that particular comparison the price difference seems a lot more than 20%, but that was just one store, I think it was Menards. I'd like to use the stuff but not if its that pricey.
Mt Don- in what climate/moisture conditions should a vapor barrier be used in walls, and which side should it be put onto? Never do that here on the dry west coast.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 02:10pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Quoting: bldginsp Mt Don- in what climate/moisture conditions should a vapor barrier be used in walls, and which side should it be put onto? Never do that here on the dry west coast.
Climate zones, vapor barriers, when, what, where in a nutshell. Well maybe a big nutshell. Not a one size fits all thing... Pay attention to hot n humid with A/C
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TheWildMan
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 02:13pm
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stone wool....
I recall accounts of magic wool cloth being made from stones. wouldn't burn when thrown in the fire and was excellent insulation. it was a wonder product through the middle ages and up to the 1940s. a magic heat proof material called abspestose.
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swampshaman
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 02:21pm
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Yea, I still cant do simple math. I rechecked.the roxul for walls 2x4 r15 is about 63 cents/ft2 and regular fiberglass is 38 cents/ft2. about 35% higher. still might be worth the extra money.
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razmichael
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 02:33pm
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Quoting: bldginsp the price difference seems a lot more than 20%, b
I've started putting roxul in my cabin walls - the price difference is greater the higher R value (at least at Homedepot in canada). For R14 the difference was about 6% if I remember but went up when you started to look at the R22. I'd think twice if doing a large home (although maybe then I could afford it anyway) but for the limited amount I need I figured it was well worth the extra cost. I'm not finished yet but with r22 in the walls and R40 spray foam in the ceiling it will be really easy to heat the cabin! Easier to cut and tends to fit into the studs really well (and easier on your skin).
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swampshaman
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 02:46pm - Edited by: swampshaman
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@thewildman OK so your post freaked me out and I did a little research.The type of fibers in the rockwool are different than the asbestos fibers and do not have the same cancer causing properties.Much safer than asbestos
http://www.roxul.com/files/RX-NA_EN/pdf/Roxul%20Material%20Safety%20Data%20Sheet.pdf
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swampshaman
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 03:29pm
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MtnDon,thanks for the link.lots of good info on insulation (like a coconut shell!!)Answered most of my questions.
Im in the northeast and need the vapor barrier.Im putting T&G sealed knotty pine boards on the walls(1/2"-3/4")I think this meets the requirements of a vapor barrier,or do I need to put a layer of plastic sheeting between the boards and the inside of the insulation??
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SubArcticGuy
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 06:52pm
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I have about 20 bags of Roxul in my garage waiting for freeze-up so I can snowmobile it out to the cabin. My father in-law runs a large commercial/industrial insulation company and put me onto it. It is supposed to be a good product...I can't speak about the price of it here...I can't actually get it where I am with out doing a special (read: expensive!) order. My father in-law was kind enough was able to supply it all AND deliver it the 1400 kilometers too! I guess he will have to get a few free trips to the cabin at the very least  .
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 07:03pm
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Quoting: swampshaman T&G sealed knotty pine boards on the walls(1/2"-3/4")I think this meets the requirements of a vapor barrier,
T&G does not make the grade as a vapor barrier. It can be very "leaky" as it expands and contracts with humidity changes. Use 6 mil plastic or similar then the T&G.
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rockies
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# Posted: 31 Oct 2013 08:31pm
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I worked in a big box lumber store for a few years and every 3 months the rep from Roxul would come in and do a demo. She had a blow-torch set up and the flame was bouncing off the material for several hours. She also put it in a bowl of water and showed how it wouldn't absorb moisture. It apparently is made with something that animals and insects don't like to eat or live in. You could try reading some of the articles on "Vapor Barriers" at the "Building Science" website (In the "information" section). Here's one by Joseph Lstiburek, who is one of the experts. http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/reports/rr-0412-insulations-sheathings-and-v apor-retarders/view?searchterm=vapor barrier
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swampshaman
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2013 06:16am
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Thanks MtnDon & rockies.Just placed my order at lowes for the roxul,heading up in a few hours to start installing it.
Thanks for everyones assistance,Im really starting to love this site!!
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2013 07:06am
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Thought i had found my insulation until i found out it is not formaldehyde free.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2013 07:55am - Edited by: bldginsp
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In recent years manufacturers of building materials have lowered formaldehyde content of their products a lot, but not entirely. Firberglass insulation is one offender, plywood and OSB have it in their glue. OSB has A LOT of glue. There are VOCs in construction adhesives, plasticizers in vinyl flooring, and a lot of nasty stuff in some carpet. What I haven't seen is any kind of real assessment of just how much of a hazard all this is, and how much it helps that they have been reducing it. That's probably because no one can really tell whether your OSB and insulation will give you cancer, or what the chances are. So you can err on the side of caution.
Roxul has less formaldehyde, but does it also have something else? It does not have asbestos, but it is mineral based and breathing any silicate is not a good idea. Who knows.....
Roxul does have formaldehyde, but evidently far less than fiberglass:
http://www.buildinggreen.com/auth/article.cfm/2009/9/25/Mineral-Wool-Residential-and- Commercial-Insulation/
From the article:
"Formaldehyde is a known carcinogen, but according to the industry, almost all of the formaldehyde in mineral wool insulation is eliminated in the production process through a chemical reaction and high heat."
One of the biggest advantages to mineral wool insulation is it's fire resistiveness. It won't smoke up to 2000 degrees, fiberglass melts at 1300. Smoke is a big issue for fires in large buildings, in a small cabin you'll be out of the cabin by the time a fire gets to the point where smoke from your insulation becomes bad enough to be a threat to you.
One thing to remember about formaldehyde is that the materials with it will off-gas for a time, and over time that will reduce. Gas from insulation in your under-floor space probably leaves through the vents, but in your walls it will seep to the exterior and to the interior. What happens in the ceiling will depend upon the type of construction, but one more argument for good ceiling ventilation.
I'd like to use it cause it gives a bit more R value, and has that much less formaldehyde, but I'll have to look at my budget at the time.
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razmichael
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2013 08:33am - Edited by: razmichael
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Quoting: silverwaterlady Thought i had found my insulation until i found out it is not formaldehyde free
True, but not to underrate the concern, there is some mis-information on the content. Some sites quote the initial amount used in the binder. Most of this is burned off in the production process. Roxul meets the GreenGuard Children and School certification standard which is fairly strict. Although you are starting to see completely formaldehyde free forms of fiberglass (and rock wool) batt insulation such as the eco-touch line of pink insulation. Roxul has been around in Canada for a long time (with similar products in Europe and UK). I believe it is fairly new in the US market (in comparison). I had not realized this until I checked a US homedepot site to find that it "is not available in your selected store". Interesting article here Rock Wool from early 2012.
Note: Bldginsp posted while I was drafting (much faster than me) so there is some duplicate info here.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2013 08:58am
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I just get up earlier
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creeky
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2013 05:39pm
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if you've worked with roxul you'll understand why critters don't like it. it'll cut your fingers. so imagine gnawing your way through something that is always cutting back at you. i've used it outdoors as a critter blocker. i've never found a nest. well. except a hornet nest this spring.
i luv roxul. repels water. even if it gets wet, once it dries out the insulation value returns. unlike the pink stuff.
no mold. a far more dangerous problem than an initial offgassing of formaldehyde. which, btw, almost every product you own does. unless you don't have a sofa, pillows, blankets, clothes, wear makeup, live in a house. sadly it's one of those ubiquitous chemicals.
i'm not sure where bldginsp got his prices from. the same bags here in ontario are 34 bucks (rona, hd) ... not 52
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2013 09:28pm
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I just did a quick search and came up with a Menards site. I didn't do ant price comparison, which anyone obviously should before they buy. But that price sounds low- same as they charge for glass
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creeky
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2013 09:16am
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http://www.rona.ca/en/insulate-r28-299-sq-ft
33.99
looks like rona and hd are having a bit of a price war over the product. or the price has come down.
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swampshaman
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2013 07:11am
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Finished insulating first floor with the roxul.LOVED IT,worth every extra dollar I spent.if you use the correct PPE(tyvek suit,gloves a dust mask and safety glasses) the job goes quick.No itching!! I finished my first floor 14x32 in about 6 hours,including putting in the vapor barrier(4 mil plastic wrap).
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