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optimistic
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2013 08:10pm
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I am planning my shower and I first wanted to tile but I never done it before and it seems like a lot of work.
Instead I think I will use a swanstone shower base and use my regular wall cover, the same that will cover my entire cabin, which is 1x3 furring strips (best price per sqft and I built my bed from it... I like the look) for the entire bathroom - even the shower area....
So I know I need to really seal it real good. I also want to paint the entire bathroom white.
I am thinking - extruded foam boards between the joists of the wall (because even if water reaches them - they won't become moldy, then a thick layer of vapor barrier on the joists. Then install the furring on that. Put two thick coats of primer (higher end brand) then 2 thick coats of high gloss paint.... Thoughts?
I am open to doing this very differently.
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Martian
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2013 08:25pm - Edited by: Martian
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It really depends on how often you will use it. If you plan on living there full time, then put in something easy to keep clean, or plan on drying your shower every day. As for all the precautions your taking to prevent moisture, put up sheets of smooth plastic behind the boards. Any water that works its way thru will drain to the bottom. I've lived with a wood lined shower, and honestly, over the long haul, I'd go another route. But if you are dead set on this approach, I'd seal the hell out of the bottom end grain with an epoxy such as WEST System.
Tom
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optimistic
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2013 08:37pm
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Thanks for the tip!
This is strictly for recreational use. I was just reading about yacht painting. Good products out there just need to figure out the most economical way.
Never seen 'plastic boards' for sell. Can you give a link?
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2013 09:05pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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How about something like one of these panels... or this...
They have a pebble finish that hides water spots quite well.  Ask for FRP panels (Fiberglass Reinforced Plastic).. Special trim pieces available for joining one panel to another if needed. Also for corners.
HD and Lowes carry panels in assorted colors in my location.
Looks like this...
The 1/8" FRP panels are glued over cement board that is screwed to the studs. The wood appearing corner pieces are plastic/foam trim with fake wood grain look. Siliconed into the corners. Sealed to the shower pan lip at the bottom with silicone as well.
Link to more images (scroll)
The T&G ceiling just has 5 coats of acrylic clear coat. So far everyhting is great (just over 3 years part time cabin use)
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Martian
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2013 09:08pm
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That's what I did in my first cabin, except I used a smooth version, MtnDon. Either way, its a waterproof surface and easy to clean.
Tom
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2013 09:18pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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door frame not completed in that image. That too is wood with multiple coats of clear acrylic.
Yes, I've seen the smooth. Personal choice on which to use...
I grouted the joints in the cement board and when cured then glued the panels to the cement board with adhesive formulated for FRP compatibility.
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Martian
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# Posted: 20 Aug 2013 10:56pm - Edited by: Martian
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The only thing I did differently was to run my panels horizontally to avoid the seam in the corner. First I heated them with a hot air gun and bent them around a 1/4" radius to fit the corners. The two inch overlap of the top panel is sealed, but only for looks. I glued them, too.
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jjlrrw
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2013 12:22pm - Edited by: jjlrrw
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Here is a link to my shower project almost two years of weekend use and looks the same as the day it was completed.
http://www.small-cabin.com/forum/2_1422_0.html#msg20090
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optimistic
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2013 05:42pm
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Thanks for the link jjlrrw.
I was thinking to do something hardcore like - marine grade two part poly.... it meant to go on boats so I should be good.
What you do think?
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Martian
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2013 07:46pm - Edited by: Martian
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Optimistic, I ran a yacht repair yard and worked on yachts for years. The two part paints are really good, but for your application, a quality hull paint for wooden boats will work great. If you decide to go with the two part paint, wear a respirator and have really good ventilation!
Tom
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optimistic
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2013 10:25pm
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Martian... Then you are the person to ask! ;)
I decided that instead of having it white - I want it more like jjlrrw bathroom... With a clear finish.
What should I use? my bathroom is so small that those strong boat materials shoudn't break my bank.
Can you recommend what to use?
I saw that I should use an epoxy wood sealer and then varnish.... Not sure if you agree.
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Martian
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# Posted: 21 Aug 2013 10:53pm
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If you are going clear, then I would recommend three to four thin coats of WEST System epoxy, sand between coats, and two coats, minimum, of exterior urethane for UV protection. The epoxy will seal the wood, and I've never known it to peel. Never.
Tom
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optimistic
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2013 10:24am
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Exterior urethane for indoors? really?
Your'e the boss.
Can you give links to these items?
Thanks!
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Martian
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2013 12:49pm
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Here is a link on the epoxy.
http://www.westsystem.com/ss/105-epoxy-resin/
I say to use exterior because it is a harder urethane, and the UV will help if there is any sunlight coming thru a window.
http://www.deftfinishes.com/trade/products/oil-based-topcoats/defthane-interior-exter ior-polyurethane
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optimistic
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2013 03:31pm - Edited by: optimistic
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Thanks Martian!
Also, I have Oak floors in there as well... It already has two coats of poly. should I put anything else on it?
Also, do I need the hardener West makes as well?
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Martian
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2013 04:48pm - Edited by: Martian
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Yes, you will need the hardener; 206 is what I use, unless its really hot. Don't mix a big batch! It creates its own exothermic heat as it cures and WILL catch fire if left in a big batch! I wouldn't mix more than an ounce or two at a time. The thin coats will take hours to cure, but the working time varies according to the temperature of the room. A little goes a long way. Get a quart of acetone while you're out; that's the solvent for the epoxy.
If you already have poly on the shower floor, unless you are willing to sand it ALL off, just add several more coats. Don't let water get to the oak or it will turn black.
West System epoxy is especially good for wood because it is thin and soaks in well. When epoxy cures, it expands minutely and locks into the fibers of the wood.
Good luck.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2013 05:39pm - Edited by: optimistic
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I will take pictures to share. Sounds scary with the fire thing and thanks for reminding about the acetone.
Brush it, right?
Any idea on how many hours to cure?
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Martian
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# Posted: 22 Aug 2013 08:45pm - Edited by: Martian
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If you have a cat, You can use the small cat food cans for mixing. They are great. As for as cure time, the temperature will determine that, but at least 4 hours at 70 degrees or less. Faster as it gets hotter. I brush it on, yes. Dip your brush in the acetone occasionally to help with flow and to keep the epoxy in the rush from hardening.
I never said it would be easy...but it will protect
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optimistic
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2013 01:10pm
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Will a marine varnish - man o' war, marine spar varnish, be ok? A store near me carries it but they don't have any exterior poly.. Only Interior. So I can get an interior poly or this exterior varnish. What do you think? I can try to order the one you linked online it's just the time thing.. I want to start working this weekend.
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Martian
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2013 01:18pm
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Use what you can get! The shower isn't going to get a lot of abuse, I don't imagine. A good varnish will work just fine.
Tom
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optimistic
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# Posted: 27 Aug 2013 01:24pm
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Thank Tom!
This is the product - http://www.reddenmarine.com/mccloskey-7509-man-o-war-marine-spar-varnish-gloss.html
Quick response! appreciate it!
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rayyy
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# Posted: 28 Aug 2013 05:41pm
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You can still buy a 4 piece shower kit from Value for a hundred fifty bucks.It's not pretty but it work's just great.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2013 11:43am
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After putting my efforts into insulation, wood stove, and underground cistern - I am finally ready to resume work on bathroom.
I had a thought/question - is it possible to just used the wood floors I have in there right now as the shower base?
In other words: instead of doing tiles on the floors (I have oak floors there right now) just put some extra thick layer of epoxy or something on the floor, do some square edges on the floor (metal or plastic), and that's it.. So I know it will be impossible to create a pitch for the water but maybe I could just wipe it down after I take a shower?
We are talking about 1 or 2 showers once every other weekend (4 showers a month... this is how much time I spend at the cabin ... I am not stinky ;) )
thoughts?
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2013 03:41pm
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I suppose you could but on the long term it's not going to hold up. Wood expands and contracts with moisture variation, which will crack the finish and let water into the wood. You could get boat epoxy of some sort and use it to glue down fiberglass cloth but that's harder than just installing a plastic shower receptor. Frp panels are cheap and easy to instal, and if you seal up the joints well you have a good water barrier.
Really seems to me that plastic receptor and frp is easier and not much more in cost than other homemade solutions, and they provide a positive water barrier that will be in usable shape 10 years from now. Your customized solutions won't.
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rockies
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2013 06:01pm
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I always have to wonder about the length of time people spend researching, questioning and trying different methods for their bathroom showers and tub surrounds simply because they assume that tiling is too complicated. I have seen more shows (like Holmes on Homes) talk about the tremendous damage water has on a building (especially in a bathroom) and that you must use the most waterproof system you can. They say don't even use "water resistant" materials in the shower, use "water-proof". The easiest system is the Schluter shower kit http://www.schluter.com/8_4_kerdi_shower_kit.aspx
They also make a wall board that has the Schluter membrane already attached so you don't have to use concrete board in a separate step. As for tiling, just use a larger tile to minimise grout joints. Any library has books on tile layout and installation, and if you layout the pattern and do the measurements beforehand you could even have the tiles cut to size at a building center when you buy them, but the substrate MUST be waterproof! Wood in a shower will mold and rot eventually.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2013 07:01pm
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Quoting: rockies They say don't even use "water resistant" materials in the shower, use "water-proof".
That is why the building codes have evolved. Bathrooms used to use the same construction as the rest of the house. Then the water resistant drywalls. Now we have cement board, precast pans, Ditra and other methods that are better than the old ones.
I have done a lot of tile work; floors and walls. Buying or renting a good tile cutter or a good tile saw helps immensely. Reasonable quality saws can be had for reasonable prices, by my standards.
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PatrickH
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2013 08:38pm
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Why not just use a fiberglass shower pan with a smooth version of the panels Don showed and glue 1x3 pvc boards to that to get the look you want waterproof,easy to clean,no painting . I have built several tiled showers and my wife hates cleaning the tiled floors she never wants another one.And you need to reseal and use caution on the cleaners or it will strip the sealer.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2013 11:11pm
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If you ever see an old shower demolished that leaked, you'll think hard about doing it right the first time. Yuck to the third power.
Tile itself is waterproof, but the grout is not. Most types of cement board are not water proof. So you put a layer or two of 15 lb black paper on the wall before the cement board. The paper should go horizontally, start at the bottom, overlap at least 6 inches, and crease it tight in the corners or else the cement board will tear it.
You can float the shower walls, which means use paper and wire and then float it with mud to prep for tile. But this takes skill and I respect the guys that do it well. Again it uses paper as the waterproof barrier.
If you rock the wall, put the paper over the Sheetrock, not under it. Most drywall is not made to take water. Dens shield brand drywall is rated to take water exposure and can be used as a tile backer in showers with no paper behind it. It is faced with fiberglass, not paper. Caulk all breaks in the fiberglass layer to keep the water barrier intact. I've read that a lot of experienced tile guys don't like this stuff, but it is rated to do this.
Numerous other waterproofing systems exist for showers. Some brands of cement board are rated as waterproof so long as you use the proprietary seam sealant. With any cement board, use coated screws because cement corrodes bare fasteners.
Different rubber/plastic/composite liners are available both for the shower pan and for the walls. When using these you follow the manufacturer's instructions.
Many people think that greenboard is waterproof, but it isn't. It differs from ordinary sheetrock in only one way. It is made to resist moisture from the one-time application of thinset mortar when tile is applied directly to it. It is not rated for tile in a shower, though, because it isn't waterproof.
Shower pans are often built up with hot mop tar, but not in most small cabins. But many of the other shower pan liner systems would be very feasible for the DIY crowd. If you do that, make sure you test it well to be sure water isn't leaking around the drain and getting onto the floor beneath. Put a balloon plug in the drain, fill the pan with water. Leave for 24 hours, climb under and put your hand on the fitting to test for any leakage.
And now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go take a shower.
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rockies
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2013 04:36pm
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Bldginsp: You mentioned just about every method of waterproofing a shower stall EXCEPT the Schluter system. I first saw this product used on "Holmes on Homes" and he uses it in every shower and tub surround he builds. It is waterproof, and goes over the substrate (preferrably concrete board). It system has the main wall panels (which are a bit like wallpaper)attached first, then you do the corners with the same material overlaid. There are shower pans available that are pre-sloped to the drain that can be customized to any size, and now there are substrate panels that have the waterproof membrane already attached (just do the corners). The system is so simple I doubt anyone would want to do it any other way. As for tile grout lines, they are porous, but if you use a larger tile you won't have many of them, and the schluter underneath is waterproof anyways.
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bldginsp
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2013 10:23pm
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Haven't seen that one. Sounds easy and quick. But I think most people are not willing to try tiling cause it seems too intimidating. Like me, for instance, I'm going to use a fiberglass surround over a plastic pan. Looks lousy but works well and installs fast.
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