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optimistic
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2012 09:08pm
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It will be 12'x12' with 13' ceilings. The walls will have R13 batts and the ceiling will have R19 batts. This will be the stove: http://www.lowes.com/pd_375228-76845-50-SVL17LC_0__?productId=3664808&Ntt=wood+stoves &pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dwood%2Bstoves&facetInfo=
Which is meant for 800-1000sqft. Such a small space might get even too hot...
The only reason I am debating it is because it will be prefab shed so I need to decide if I have them insulate it for me...
Thoughts?
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tcmatt
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2012 10:46pm
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optimistic,
There has been a few posts on this topic in the past. And many opinions. Here's my take on the issue...
I just built a 12x16 with half a loft this past spring in northern michigan. I insulated the walls and ceiling with r-13. I did not insulate the floor. I tinker in my unheated garage with a concrete floor many evenings and weekends all winter long (in northern MI) with a pair of wool socks and crocs and my feet never get cold. Crocs are made of closed cell-foam - the same stuff foam sleeping pads are made of (ridge-rests) and its a great insulator.
I used the cabin this fall during deer hunting season with wools and crocs and feet were toasty. I'm imagine I lost some heat through the floor, but I couldn't tell.
A lot depends on where you are (geographically), how cold it will get outside, how frequently you'll use the cabin, etc. etc.
Hope this helps,
Matt
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groingo
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 11:47am
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Have a 10 / 20 cabin and I simply put a layer of 4 mill plastic between the floor joists and 1 inch flooring then on the inside I put 1/2 carpet padding down and some carpet on top of that and be sure to seal around the base of your place so no cold air blows under the cabin....been working great now into my second year
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 01:16pm
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This is one of personal preference and usage. If it was your home and conserving every once of energy added up to big dollars then you'd want to insulate the floor.
in a small cabin you can get a small woodstove that will completely over power the place. In that case an uninsulated floor is welcomed.
Comfort is really about heat loss vs heat power (BTUs or otherwise).
questions to consider:
- with small price of insulating the floor why not do it
- will your woodstove make up for un insulated floor
- will a really cold night require you to stoke fire
- how much will you use the place in colder months
- how much will it cost now compared to later
- will you heat with anything other than wood
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justincasei812
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 01:49pm
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I would say for the cost do it. My cabin is in northern Michigan as well and is about 950 sq ft. I think my stove (propane) is a little underpowered for the space and unless you run it for a good 24 - 32 hrs from the knee down it seems to be a little chilly (in winter)until everything gets warm. I would rather open a window a crack than have cold feet or have to wear shoes the entire time I am there. Just my opinion
Kevin
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Borrego
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 01:55pm
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Insulate while it's easy. price is certainly not an issue, and as a matter of fact, there are no reasons not to do it that I can think of.....
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wakeslayer
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 02:23pm
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Yep, insulate now. My main cabin is not, and I kick myself every time I think of how easy it would have been to pull the floor and do it at the time. Our bunkhouse floor is insulated. It is so cheap to do now, and such a hassle later if you change your mind.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 03:27pm
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Our cabin can't be used from Oct-the middle of May because its not insulated. We would freeze.
A few reasons why it's not insulated, we are not retired and it is to far to drive up there for a weekend and the cost would be to high due to square footage. This can wait until we are ready to retire.
If you plan on using it in the winter than you should insulate. It will keep your fuel costs down.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 03:46pm
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Quoting: silverwaterlady It will keep your fuel costs down.
and if the main fuel is wood, you don't need to cut and split as much if you do it yourself. less gasoline and other chain saw costs as well. Not to mention warmer feet.
I have learned to think that my use may change in the future. My planned use for an item has changed many times in the past. I guess getting older has some benefits if you remember the actions of the past.
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hitanktank
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 07:11pm
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Quoting: tcmatt optimistic, There has been a few posts on this topic in the past. And many opinions. Here's my take on the issue... I just built a 12x16 with half a loft this past spring in northern michigan. I insulated the walls and ceiling with r-13. I did not insulate the floor. I tinker in my unheated garage with a concrete floor many evenings and weekends all winter long (in northern MI) with a pair of wool socks and crocs and my feet never get cold. Crocs are made of closed cell-foam - the same stuff foam sleeping pads are made of (ridge-rests) and its a great insulator. I used the cabin this fall during deer hunting season with wools and crocs and feet were toasty. I'm imagine I lost some heat through the floor, but I couldn't tell. A lot depends on where you are (geographically), how cold it will get outside, how frequently you'll use the cabin, etc. etc. Hope this helps, Matt
whats wrong with this post?
you wear "crocs" and admit it?
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oldgringo
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 07:54pm
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I would be concerned with rodents setting up housekeeping in an insulated floor. I've batted this around for years, and don't have a good answer, yet.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 09:03pm
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LOL I wear Crocs and love them.
I just looked at the wood stove and wow! It is far to big for the space you will be heating. It is rated 800-1200 sq ft. Is that even safe?
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hitanktank
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2012 11:35pm
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2012 12:07am
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LOL. I have black Crocs lined in red plaid they have maple leafs embossed on them. Guess what? I've had many complements on them. 
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optimistic
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2012 08:00am
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I will ask them about insulating the floors. Not sure how they will even do it. They will need to probably do rigid foam. They can't do batts without also putting a layer of plywood under the joists which might be quite expensive.
Silverwater - yeah that stove is for 800-1000.... Never used a stove before but from the logic of it - it seems that it is a question of how much wood I put in it...? The bigger the stove more wood you can put in but you don't need to put so much wood. Right?
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Zug
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2012 08:01am
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12X16 un-insulated cabin in northern MI.
Another thing I have noticed with our 12X16 I can keep it warm with our wood stove but when it really gets cold (under 20 degs) we notice all the nail heads in the floor and roof can
condensate and you will get dripped on. but I have a surplus of wood and we use the space in the between the studs, we like the rustic cabin feel.
My 2cent
Zug
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2012 08:44am - Edited by: Dillio187
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I would insulate the floor. As others have mentioned, the additional cost is little, and it does help. I have a 12x16 with insulated walls and ceiling, but the floor is not. It's cold on the feet.
FYI, you can get the same stove under it's real name at Home Depot for $70 less. There's your insulation money! The guys on hearth.com speak highly of it, in fact the designer is a member there.
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202051504/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053 &langId=-1&keyword=Englander&storeId=10051
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Dillio187
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2012 09:35am
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even cheaper at overstock stoves.
http://www.overstockstoves.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--125017 1200.html
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2012 04:08pm
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Opti I don't know anything about wood heat. We use propane. The heat goes right up and out since our ceiling is uninsulated and 25 ft. Before we purchased the stove I spoke to the dealer to make sure we got the correct stove.
I know you have been doing a lot of research. Talk to a wood stove dealer about your set up. You don't want to make the mistake of purchasing the wrong stove for your cabin.
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evrmc1
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2012 04:17pm
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If you dont do the floors I think you will wish you had. You can use cork flooring I have read it dose a great job
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Sustainusfarm
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2012 05:04pm
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Quoting: optimistic Never used a stove before but from the logic of it - it seems that it is a question of how much wood I put in it...? The bigger the stove more wood you can put in but you don't need to put so much wood. Right?
You should never under stoke a wood stove as the creosote will build up in the chimney really fast! You should really get a stove more suited to the size of your cabin...you should be able to run a really hot fire to burn the creosote out of the chimney and for complete combustion of the gases and particles in the smoke....
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hitanktank
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2012 11:24pm
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Quoting: silverwaterlady LOL. I have black Crocs lined in red plaid they have maple leafs embossed on them. Guess what? I've had many complements on them.
and I am sure they are quite the fashion people "complimenting" them
oh brother, crocs. I'll take 17 bats to the face before I'll be seen in those disasters
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 21 Dec 2012 11:58pm
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So than what is your favorate shoe? Crocs are clean shoes. Many nurses and chefs wear them because thay can be washed everyday in the sink with soap and water dried off and put right back on. So what if their ugly. Some of the most beautiful shoes are the most unhealthy to wear yet women suffer everyday wearing them to look pretty. I don't play that game.
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oldgringo
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2012 06:40am
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I thought the same thing. Fugly.
Then somenone gave me a pair. I used them as slippers
/camp shoes. Then I wore them to town once. Then again. Then every day. Then I wore them over socks. In winter.
In the catalog of slippery slopes, Crocs appear on page one.
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optimistic
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2012 10:37am
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Amazing DIllio! Thanks for that link!
sustainfarm - I will start a post about this topic. Thanks for the heads up. Wasn't aware of that issue.
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tcmatt
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2012 12:15pm
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man, I'm getting slammed here just for mentioning the insulating quality of crocs. Just tryin' the save the dude a few bucks. to all the cynics...don't knock 'em 'til you try 'em. I ask you this...did you like beer or bourbon the first time you tried it?
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2012 03:57pm
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^Like^
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2012 05:22pm
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I would insulate, we used blown in for floor, but just shoveled it into floor cavities. Cellulose is insect and rodent resistant also
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villager
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2012 07:57pm
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Quoting: silverwaterlady So what if their ugly. Some of the most beautiful shoes are the most unhealthy to wear yet women suffer everyday wearing them to look pretty. I don't play that game.
silverwaterlady
You're my kind o lady...so rare....and fair. Are you in ontario?
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Borrego
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2012 08:55pm
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Quoting: oldgringo I would be concerned with rodents setting up housekeeping in an insulated floor. I've batted this around for years, and don't have a good answer, yet.
I screwed a 1x2 to the inside bottom of each floor joist and laid some thin ply in between the joists creating a bottom that the critters will have a tough time getting into. Any gaps got foamed or siliconed. Alternatively one could use LVL's (I-beams) for joists....
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