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Swamphunter
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2012 09:37am
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The basic shell of my cabin to be built in the spring is 16'w x 24'd... I am spending the winter gathering sale items to use for the build and am trying to decide what size windows would look aesthetically proper for this build. I think I want two on each side. I want single hung windows that slide up and down to open and close... any thoughts on what size would look best?
My local home centers are keeping their eyes open for scratch and dent items for me...
thanks
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PA_Bound
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2012 10:37am
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My cabin is 14'x40', and I went with standard 30"wx36"h windows. I think they look good. Whatever size you choose, make sure at least those used in any bedrooms are large enough to use as a fire egress in case of emergency.
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TheWildMan
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2012 10:53am
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i went with uninsulated single pane windows, got them for $50 each, 1 that came with the cabin (prebuilt storage shed delivered-portable building) 3 that i added later, rode my bike to the construction yard and hauled the 3 home in a bike trailer, about 22 miles each way.
they are small at about 20" wide and 32" high, can open enough to climb out.
to help with insulating in the winter I built solid wood shutters on the inside (12" pine board with hinges, 1 on each side), close them and drape a curtain made from an old blanket over them.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2012 10:53am
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We've a 16 x 30. All windows in the long walls.
We happen to like sliders more than single/double hung. I actually prefer casement but they are more costly.
We also like large windows, we like to be able to see some of our great outdoors when we are indoors. So we have a 6-0 x 4-0 and a 5-0 x 4-0 on opposite walls in the main living space end. Then a 3-0 x 4-0 by the bed and a 2-6 x 3-0 in the bathroom. Because we wanted more or less those sizes we bought them new; ordered special.
Emergency egress
R310.1.1 Minimum opening area.
All emergency escape and rescue openings shall have a minimum net clear opening of 5.7 square feet (0.530 m2).
Exception: Grade floor openings shall have a minimum net clear opening of 5 square feet (0.465 m2).
R310.1.2 Minimum opening height.
The minimum net clear opening height shall be 24 inches (610 mm).
R310.1.3 Minimum opening width.
The minimum net clear opening width shall be 20 inches (508 mm).
clear meaning the actual part that opens is of that size
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TomChum
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2012 11:31am - Edited by: TomChum
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I bought all my windows at a use building materials store. There are several in my area. Double pane windows are interesting but they're not classical, which is my 'thing'. I have them at my home in the city but no way will I let them in my cabin! Don I like casement style too because they are simple (and classical ). If you use casement consider the placement and whether someone is likely to be walking around where they might bump their head on the corners. With casement style (if simple hinged) it needs a device to prevent it from blowing in the wind.
If anyone wants to allow me to further expound on the cabin-virtues of single-pane glass.....
1) At used building mat'l stores you can find lumpy/wiggly old glass and change out the smooth glass. I have had some luck cutting old glass. The operative word is "some". This is not a git'er done scenario, it's more on the hobby end. But lumpy glass looks cool in a cabin.
2) A single pane glass window has an R-value of about "1", or about 5% of an R-19 batt. Double pane has an R value of about "2", about 10% of an R-19 batt. So for the loss of your soul you go from 5% to 10%. You can tell I have strong feelings on cabin windows.
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TheWildMan
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2012 01:45pm
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Tom,
I suggest a 3rd point, price and efficency, Cabins are generally much smaller (don't need as much to heat, less area-surfaces to loose heat through), single panre are a lot cheaper (if you use used ones you can often get them free), for most people cabins are a seasonal-occasional thing, having maximum insulation on a building that might only be used a couple weekends a year is overkill, this fits in with your second point, the price spent on a little better insulation is not worth it when its not used as much. at home where the heat is on all the time in winter its cost effective to use double glass. in the cabin its more effective to just add some more firewood to the stove for the night or use a curtain for insulation.
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Swamphunter
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# Posted: 11 Dec 2012 02:01pm
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I think Im looking at probably 24x36 or 24x48.... I just called my local home center and they dont have any as of yet, but will call me if they get some in that fit the bill.... think I forgot to mention that the cabin walls will be 10' high
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 12:41am
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Swamphunter, use std sized ones for ease of finding and replacing (if you ever have too) but if its going to be in a bedroom/bunkroom, the bottom of the window can not be higher than 3 feet from the floor. This is code for almost every area. Its designed to be easy for even a smaller person to climb out in an emergency escape (fire etc)
All widows near a door (within 24" of a door opening) must be tempered. Code may vary in your area. I think this was to make it so if a thief wants to break it to reach in to open the door, he wont cut himself. 
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Anonymous
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 02:25am
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We wanted as much natural light in our 16x20, so the south side is 4x6 with a slider section. Get a friend or two to lift it in! North side is 4x4 but with a view of Mt McKinley. Front/west is 4x4, and the door has a half-light. When we got the place it had smaller windows. Best money we spent was sizing up.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 02:53am
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we used dual pane, horizontal sliders, as large as possible to let light (and view) in.....
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Swamphunter
Member
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 07:10am
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Im hearing you all... building code really doesnt apply to a seasonal residence in my county if there is no electric or plumbing. I called building code office and spoke to enforcement officer himself... he simply stated that if I provided him a drawing for the tax purposes, and it was common sense construction, they dont concern themselves that much. He just asked that since Im totally off grid and was using a wood stove for heat, that he would like to inspect the installed stove. Also said that its not a requirement, but strongly recommended a Carbon Monoxide detector and a a smoke detector... (that to me falls in the common sense construction category).
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larry
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 07:32am
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if there are any window manufacturers in the area you may want to check with them. an acquaintance of mine is a manufacturer of windows and sells mistakes and over runs for an average of $30.00 a unit. just a thought.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 10:32am
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Even though the building officials have said they are not concerned about a number of things, consider threy aren't living there; you are. Some of the provisions in the code regarding use of tempered glass can make some sense. The thinking is that when standard glass breaks it breaks into large pices with points, etc that can readily cut our bodies. So doors and the windows close to doors (high traffic areas... people using them a lot) should be tempered glass. There are other things that rigger the tempered glass rule. It just might be worth thinking about especially if there are children about. Or unsteady elderly.
Ditto for the egress size of windows. If the window in the bedroom is too small to get through and there is a fire elsewhere in the cabin, will the $$ saved on a small window be worth it.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 10:34am
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IRC section on glazing subsection .4 has the hazardous locations
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suburbancowboy
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 11:35am
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I'm glad you are having a good experience with the building office there. It is good to see a government agency follow the common sense rule. Silly building codes cost me an extra 10,000 dollars and 6 months of time this past year. O well I'm getting past it now that it is all passed off.
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Swamphunter
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 03:47pm
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MtnDon brought up some very good points. Window in the upstairs loft will definitely be large enough to exit out of. Im not about pinching pennies by cutting corners when it comes to safety of the structure... just about taking advantage of windows and building supplies that may be a cost savings without being a quality sacrifice
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ArkansasCabin
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 09:25pm
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often too many people put too small of windows into their buildings. If i were you, I would lay out a simple drawing on some grid paper, using each grid as a foot (or whatever dimension you choose) and then draw in what size windows you think look good. Simply after doing that, determine the dimension size by counting the squares and see what the home centers have in relation to what youre looking for.
If you want to go a more complicated route when designing it, download "google sketchup". Ive designed my entire cabin on it down to the exact inch.
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MtnDon
Member
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 09:27pm
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Quoting: ArkansasCabin often too many people put too small of windows into their buildings.
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ArkansasCabin
Member
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 09:28pm
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pictures from my sketchup design
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hakalugi
Member
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# Posted: 12 Dec 2012 11:28pm
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hey ArkansasCabin,
have you uploaded your files 3D-warehouse?
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TomChum
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2012 12:08am
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Quoting: MtnDon consider threy aren't living there; you are.
Consider that "they" aren't paying for the overbuilt stuff, or the delays. You are paying for all that and it can make you crazy.
Living with your house all torn up is hard enough.
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ArkansasCabin
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2012 12:24am
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Hakalugi, no i havent uploaded my files yet. I was planning on doing that when my cabin was entirely finished (both the rendering on sketchup, and the actual construction of it)
Why do you ask?
*currently i'm working on the interior rendering. Heres a quick shot of it.
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beachman
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# Posted: 13 Dec 2012 07:51pm
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Bigger is always better. You have to let the light in. Also, had a friend who put in cheap windows only to replace them with good ones - manufactured - a few years later. Best not to skimp on these if you don't have to.
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EvoQ
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# Posted: 14 Dec 2012 12:02pm
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Why Not make your own Windows?
It is very easy to do, I have built countless windows. Even with simple carpentry skills you can do it and save a bundle and also get exactly what you want.
As one has mentioned the size is dictated to your needs. Is function higher on your priority list or is Form more so what you are looking for. The larger the window the less efficient they are in insulating value, also the added framing of the wall too has to be taken into account on the walls where you will be installing these windows. Think all these aspects and then design what fits your best overall wants/needs.
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operose
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 01:04pm
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If you will be orienting one side (preferably the "long" side) of the building to the south, there is no reason not to make proper use of passive solar heating principles.
This just takes doing a heat load calculation for the building, and then by looking up the heating degree days and solar insolation factors for your location you can determine the best amount of functional glazing area for your situation.
With this you can determine the number, size, and placement of windows. You will also want to have some type of thermal mass in the building that can absorb this heat and release it to the room as the air temperature drops. This can be concrete floor, brick pavers, water, your woodstove, whatever really. Even wood has the ability to store a small amount of heat.
Large windows on the north side will be a large heat loss when it is colder outside than inside and should be minimized if possible. Then again you don't want to ruin a great view if you have one, so maybe those double glazed windows aren't such a bad idea to keep that area from becoming a "cold spot" that sends you to the couch in the room with the stove.
....
Sorry for rambling, let me condense that:
1) orient long side of building towards true South
2) calculate heat load of building based on construction type and materials
3) determine available energy from the sun per square foot of glazing
4) size windows to achieve maximum aesthetics and maximum heat absorption
5) install thermal mass to store and release heat
It all sounds so easy! ;)
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 01:14pm
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Allow me to add to calculate sun anglessummer/winter to size the eves to provide shade on the windows in summer and to let the sun hit the glass in winter. We did.
The mention of north facing for "the view" is something we ran into. Our most majestic view is to the north so that is where the 6-0 x 4-0 slider is located. Dual paned, argon gas filled good quality special ordered window. Worth every penny of the price which was something like $330 IIRC.
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operose
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 03:12pm - Edited by: operose
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Good call on the eves, I forgot to mention that. You don't want to cook yourself in the summer!!!
Also, these Low-E windows you can buy everywhere are junk for passive solar heating. It is hard to find anything but these now apparently. I don't understand them in cold climates at all. The "Low-E" stands for "Low Emissitivity" and that means it keeps the heat from the sun out. What are the manufacturers thinking? We don't all live in Florida.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2012 03:46pm - Edited by: MtnDon
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Low-e works in both directions. Heat always moves from the warm side to the cool side. The low-e glass slows down the rate of heat transfer.
When the weather is cold the light part of the day is shorter than the dark portion. Even if the suns rays fell directly on the glass all day there is going to be more time for heat to exit through the window than for heat gain. You wouldn't want to build a trombe wall with low-e glass though. Some manufacturers will make the windows to your special request, though you may need to talk the local bldg dept into an okay.
For the record, heat transfers faster the greater the temperature differential.
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