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Sustainusfarm
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2012 10:24pm
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We have pounded a 3' sand point and hit water! thats the good news...the bad news is that we feel the water is to deep in the well to be able to bring it up!?
We put down 1 1/4" pipe with a 3" sand point ...at this time we have 38 feet of pipe and the 3 foot point totaling 41ft down....we have measured the water to be about 6ft in the well or 3 ft above the point.
Problem is how do we get the water out?
We did hook up a hand pump with no luck as the handle keeps kicking back up becasue we think the point is clogged and creating a suction not allowing the pump to work or because the static water level is to deep for a hand pump....
HELP!!!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2012 01:22am - Edited by: MtnDon
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A regular hand pump is limited by atmospheric pressure to a maximum depth of around 21 feet at sea level. As altitude increases, air pressure drops and the depth that can be pumped from decreases. Also that 1 1/4 inch diameter pipe works against you. You are lifting, or trying to life the weight of the water in the standpipe. The weight of water in a 1 1/4 pipe weighs almost three times as much as in a 3/4 inch pipe. A longer handle can help with the effort.
In order to make that work with a hand pump you need a pump that places the valve mechanism farther down the well. A friend has one of these with the motor option; powered by a small solar panel and battery. He pumps from something like 160 feet I think.
Stainless steel pump
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Martian
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2012 07:14am
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To my knowledge, the 1 1/4" pipe is too small for a 'sucker rod' type pump. At least, I've never seen one that with that small a diameter lower valve. If you have electricity, a shallow well pump should work; otherwise, I think you are going to be faced with custom fabricating of the lower valve.
Tom
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2012 08:59am
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A column of water is heavy. Also, is there some type of foot valve to hold the water in the pipe once you do start pumping it. Deep hand pump wells, the pump is at the bottom of the pipe. In other words, drop down a well pipe, with foot valve inside your existing hole, the pump has stainless extensions you add as you go down. So the hand pump is on the surface, but the actual pump mechanism is in the bottom of the well. So you are pushing the column of water up instead of pulling it. The foot valve will keep the handle from kicking back. They are spendy, but your not that deep.
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Sustainusfarm
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2012 09:52am - Edited by: Sustainusfarm
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I guess I was only using the handpump to check for water and to clean out the well before I put in an electrical type pump....not sure how to clean the well of silt and sand and to develope the well if I cannot use the hand pump...
Also, MTNDON are you saying I can use a shallow well pump if I use a drop pipe??? I was under the impression that any sort of pump that sucked water needed the static water lever at or close to 25" or less?? I would really like to use something like this http://images.harborfreight.com/manuals/47000-47999/47906.pdf
But...even the specs on this one say Max. suction lift 26'!!
So .....???
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Martian
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2012 11:44am
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You need a deep well jet pump; they work down to around 80 feet. However, I think they all come with 1 1/4" intakes. I'm not sure how effective it would be if you reduced that down to 1" to fit inside your pipe plus you'd have to have a foot valve/check valve at the bottom. However, if you can get it to work, you can use this same pump to clear the well. It shouldn't get destroyed by running a little sand through it.
Tom
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Sustainusfarm
Member
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2012 07:25pm
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All the deep well jet pumps have two pipes running down into the well casing..one is 1 1/4" suction line and the other is the 1" line that jets the water to the bottom of the well....any other ideas??
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2012 08:02pm
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I did find a single line deep well pump, but it won't work because of the need to get a 1 1/4" valve down hole.
I'm afraid that with the size pipe you have, finding a pump is going to be challenging.
Tom
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Sustainusfarm
Member
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2012 09:53pm
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Heres the latest.....We are waiting for spring to see if the water comes up into the well and within 25 ft of the surface....since we had a very lengthy drought this year we think the water table is much lower than normal! In the mean time We will work on developing the well with pressurized air in hopes of clearing the screen to allow more water to enter the well casing!
If all else fails the project was easy enough to allow me to pound another point but I would use a 2" point and pipe to allow more options for pumps!
I knew I should have done that in the first place! 
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2012 10:13pm
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Pray for rain!
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GomerPile
Member
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2012 02:55pm
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http://www.simplepump.com/
They are pricey. They have a 12V motor attachment which is insanely expensive. The quality of their products is really good. All SS construction, rebuildable, very reliable.
Lehmans also has one that is a bit cheaper but once you add all the rods and accessories it may be better to go with the simple pump.
As a test you can make a simple "foot valve" based pump from a length of hose: scroll down here: http://www.fdungan.com/well.htm Its basically a long length of hose/pipe with a ball valve in the end. you raise and lower it rapidly via a counterweight/pulley and you can get some water.
I would do a pump test to check how much water your well can deliver before dropping big bucks on one of the pumps I listed.
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2012 06:31pm
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Are you going to leave the existing pipe in the ground? Is it even possible to pull it out? Could you then drive the larger pipe down the old hole easier than starting new? Maybe you could drive a 2 1/2" pipe and get even more void space for water to collect. Can you pound the new pipe down deeper than this one. Since you are already at the point of having to use a deep well pump of some sort, why not give yourself a bit more cushion, just in case? Besides, the more pipe you have below the water table, the more water you have available.
Speaking of pumps, did you look at the turbine pump systems? I would think it would be a simple matter to get a screw that fit your existing pipe and couple it to a standard shaft. you may not be able to pump much pressure, but it would push the water up for you. We had a turbine pump on our farm when I was a kid. Except for loosing prime frequently, it worked for years and years.
Tom
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Just
Member
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2012 08:24pm
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YOU COULD USE A DEEP WELL HAND PUMP, it has a rod runing down below the water leval with the pump at the bottom of the well .they will pump very deep water . any good water well supplyer.
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Martian
Member
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2012 09:52pm
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Quoting: Just YOU COULD USE A DEEP WELL HAND PUMP, it has a rod runing down below the water leval with the pump at the bottom of the well .they will pump very deep water . any good water well supplyer.
I think this was suggested earlier, but the pipe is too small for the foot valve, if I remember correctly.
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