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KSalzwedel
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# Posted: 4 Nov 2012 12:08am
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We are currently having our cabin built. It is actually going to eventually be a guest cabin to our retirement home on our property, but we may live in it for upwards of two years. So it NEEDS to be four season.
Our dirt guy came out, looked at the cabin layout, scratched his head a lot and said he would talk to a builder friend of his for ways to make this work. The problem is that temporarily the well pump electronics will be at the cabin, later at the house. We need a set up where the house and cabin use the same well with one controller. (Sorry if I am not explaining this well.)
Anyhow, he first suggested heating the whole space under the cabin. That didn't seem wise or practical at all. Then he remembered doing something on a build before where they built an insulated box around the utilties under the cabin. That was done prior to the floor going in. We have a whole cabin already in.
Anyone else have a four season cabin with a way to insulate? We are in Alaska, so cold is a huge factor.
For utilities we will have well water, septic, and on demand water heater. Heating will be direct vent heater and woodstove.
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silverwaterlady
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# Posted: 4 Nov 2012 07:18am - Edited by: silverwaterlady
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Do you have neighbors near your cabin that are full time? If so how did they set up their utilities? Don't know much about this subject because our cabin is seasonal May-Sept.
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KSalzwedel
Member
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2012 01:36am
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We have one neighbor and their house is built on a cement slab. Ours is on cement piers. They live there full time and it is the only home on the lot.
So they won't be much help.
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2012 08:19am - Edited by: TheCabinCalls
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Here is a brainstorm. We have an outdoor utility pit. It is basically some concrete block with 4" rigid foam on it. So the earth temp helps keep it warm since it starts below the frost line and is mostly burried. We also have 1 pex tube running through it so that it doesn't dip to freezing.
It is going to be hard for you to not pay twice for this convenience I am affraid. Unless you build a pump house of sorts.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 7 Nov 2012 08:54am
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How cold does it get? Where my cabin is, they use a "pitless adapter" for the well discharge line, then that goes to an underground vault where all the tank, control gear are housed. This is underground. It can then feed both places. You could plumb in a shut off for each along with a drain too so one left empty wont need to worry about a pipe burst. The underground vaults are concrete enclosures, I think they are just a manhole type opening, going into a small cavern. I think its dirt floor too. This protects it from freezing also. And if there is a leak, its confined to the vault area, not your cabin/home.
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KSalzwedel
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2012 02:21am
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We had -4 degrees this morning. It can get well into the -20 range for weeks at a time, and that area frequently loses electricity. When there we will use the wood stove, when not we hope to use a direct vent heater to keep pipes from freezing.
We were thinking an insulated box at ground level, perhaps with a floor vent to catch heat from the cabin would work. The direct vent would be fuel oil heat.
The well pump is underground, it is just the ground level utilities as they come into the cabin that worry us.
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2012 11:19am
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Oh, so more the transition from ground to above frostline and into the air space under the cabin?
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 8 Nov 2012 04:33pm
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Quoting: KSalzwedel The well pump is underground, it is just the ground level utilities as they come into the cabin that worry us.
Ok, I assume you mean the pressure tank etc underground etc? (we all know the pump itself is underground  ) The pipe as it comes from under the grtound tot eh cabin, wrap that section with a heat tape plus then some insulating foam over top of it. As long as you have electricity, it wont freeze.
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KSalzwedel
Member
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2012 05:15pm
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Our electricity goes out for days at a time. 
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 9 Nov 2012 08:50pm
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Ok, get a gennie for backup.
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KSalzwedel
Member
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2012 04:10pm
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Gotta be there to start a gennie. We plan to use the direct vent for when we AREN'T there.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 10 Nov 2012 08:28pm
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Throwing me all kinds of curves, arent ya!
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KSalzwedel
Member
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# Posted: 11 Nov 2012 01:12am
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Just making sure your brain cells aren't disintegrating.
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KSalzwedel
Member
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2012 03:38am
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TheCabinCalls- yes the airspace part. Sorry I missed your question earlier.
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Montanan
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# Posted: 19 Nov 2012 12:23pm
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Okay, well we are in Montana and use our cabin year round. And it gets plenty cold where we are located (was -10 last weekend and our water worked fine.) We have a similar set-up, as we are also on piers, have a water system with a pressure tank, septic, and inconsistent electricity. The only difference is that we have a standard hot water heater (electric) rather than on-demand.
We had our pipes freeze the first winter we were there- at the point where the water comes up through the frost line and into the cabin on the underside. That was when the underside was open to the elements. Since then, we wrapped the pipe in good insulation (it's PVC pipe) and put skirting and rock all the way around the cabin so that it is enclosed. Still, when we are there and have the water turned on, we have to leave a faucet dripping at night to prevent freezing.
When we are not there, we simply drain the entire system and use a compressor to blow out any remaining water in the lines. We also drain the hot water heater, as we don't want to risk a power outage and a destroyed hot water heater. The pressure tank/control panel for the water system is inside the cabin and seems to work fine even in extreme cold.
Are you able to just drain the system when you leave? What other utilities are you worried about besides the water/septic system?
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KSalzwedel
Member
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# Posted: 20 Nov 2012 05:21pm
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actually, you answered all my questions. The on demand heater has an automatic drain, so no worries there. Sounds like our dirt man's idea was right on track. Thanks Montanan!!!
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schlever
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2012 05:38pm
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I'm on a crawlspace. Instead of heating the whole area, I've built a small room in the crawl that's extra insulated under all of the plumbing. I've got the pump, water heater, piping, etc all in there. It never gets below 0 celius in there, but to be sure I just leave a 100 watt bulb on which provides enough to keep it above freezing.
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KSalzwedel
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# Posted: 21 Nov 2012 08:23pm
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I wonder if our layout would permit a trapdoor to get in there for access. Hmmmm.
Light bulb is a great idea. Just enough to keep it warm. Kind of what some folks use on campers.
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Montanan
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# Posted: 24 Nov 2012 01:52am
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We got many good suggestions from our dirt man.  Glad I could help. Good luck!
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