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guy48065
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2012 01:07pm
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All the online DIY stuff I can find about wall coverings, insulation, paints, etc assume a normal home that's maintained at a livable temperature all year. What about seasonal cabins that get shut down all winter? Do they suffer any damage from the winter cold? Moisture? Do all the "standard" rules for insulation & vapor barriers apply? Most of the cabins in my lakeside community in Michigan have bare paneling on the walls. Not much drywall around.
The cabin I've had for the past 5 years has a mix of bare cheap paneling, fairly nice paneling, T&G pine, the flat side of the original half logs, and drywall. The drywall areas have insulation behind but the rest of the place has no insulation and none in the ceilings. It's always been shut down in the winter but I sometimes would spend the weekend "roughing it" by packing in my water & food. I would arrive to a 20°F INside temperature, turn on the wall furnaces, gas woodstove & oven & in about an hour it was 70 inside. The drywall was shiny wet from condensation. All the bare wood surfaces were damp to touch but not actually wet. I haven't seen any issues arise because of this abuse.
I'm just beginning the renovation to my new (to me) cabin & want to make sure I choose materials methods & finishes that will hold up to these wild swings in temperature & moisture. What do others do about seasonal shut-down? Any damage to drywall or insulation? To paint or varnish?
I'm looking for real-world experiences here. Most of the info I can find doesn't seem to fit.
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TheWildMan
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2012 02:54pm
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it should be fine whatever you use. my old house had metal roofing, wood siding, wood pannel and drywall interior. for the 40 years before i got it no one visited in winter, it was a summer home for some out of state family, before that it spent 100 years with just woodstove heat. as long as the roof is good and keeps out rain, snow, ice, etc and there are no water lines to freeze and split then changing temps should not bother it much. its rapid heating and cooling that causes condensation problems-changing temperature affects the dew point (how much moisture the air will hold before it condenses and becomes solid drops), if its rainproof and not heated it will be fine no mater what you use.
though vinal/plastic siding may be different, i am not 100%sure.
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guy48065
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# Posted: 1 Nov 2012 09:17pm
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Quoting: TheWildMan if its rainproof and not heated it will be fine no mater what you use.
But it IS heated...
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guy48065
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2012 12:51pm
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<sound of crickets>
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2012 01:07pm
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Quoting: guy48065 <sound of crickets>
Hate to hear that when someone is looking for help!
Question...you mentioned wall furnaces...are they vented to the outdoors? They create an awful lot of moisture indoors if they aren't.
We are in a similar climate (northern Wi). We do have drywall in places but it has insulation and vapor barrier behind it too-also the whole rest of the cabin is insulated. Our drywall never feels damp or wet to the touch.
If you are going to be remodeling I would insulate the cabin for sure and then go from there. In our experience we have had no problem with any of our finishes.
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TheCabinCalls
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2012 01:26pm
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Physics apply - cold things contract/shrink. If the tempature affects the entire stucture then everything moves together. There are differnce in material contraction rates, but for the most part you'll be alright. Depending on when things were installed things might show stress cracks etc. A good reason drywall/mud wasn't used much in three season cabins.
Frost/freezing applies - any water in machines or pipes can cause issues. It will cause foundation to shrink and heave.
Moisture applies - wet things mold, dry things shrink. Wood that is dry on one side and wet on the other cup and warp. If you place is not tight you will get moisture in the walls...this will freeze in northen climate and is bad news. That is the reason it is code to seal around electric boxes now.
The reason your getting condensation is from bringing it up to temp. This moisture, if not removed, will cause issues. Your heat sources give off a lot of moisture...that is what you're seeing. You want to watch that this doesn't reach 55% or more.
Since you have insulation you'll want to do everything to keep it dry. Almost any material can support mold growth. Just keep the humidity down and watch huge swings in temp. A lot of expanding and contracting along with dry to wet will cause cracks.
We had a place that wasn't insulated well. In the winter the outside walls would shrink 1/4", but the interior walls would not. The result was cabinets would separate from the ceiling, cracks around ceiling edges, the floor would be higher where the center i-beam was and fall off to the outside walls. All in all this was normal movement from winter cool/dry. Just watch the moisture/humidity.
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guy48065
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2012 03:23pm - Edited by: guy48065
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Th old cabin was much smaller and used fewer materials. I never saw any damage from firing up the (through wall) furnaces & (sealed) gas woodstove--except maybe a little cracking in the drywall corners. The drywall would be dripping wet but that's normal when your walls take longer to heat up from 20 to 70 than the air. Whatever moisture there is will condense on the cold surface. The bare wood walls never felt that wet but I don't know if it's because they could "breathe" (no vapor barrier, no insulation), or if it's because wood always feels warmer to touch than painted drywall.
The new cabin is bare log in 1/2 so no insulation there, and the newer addition is frame with fiberglass insulation. It's the new section where I have decisions to make. It's a new place to me so I don't know how it will react to turning the heat on for 2 days mid-winter. Possibly since it's larger & uses slower-heating hot water heat it may not ramp up so fast that moisture condenses on the walls. The entire cabin is wrapped in Tyvek awaiting spring & new wood siding. I'm really not sure whether to use any vapor barrier or let it breathe...
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2012 05:07pm
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Quoting: guy48065 I'm really not sure whether to use any vapor barrier or let it breathe...
I'm guessing you should use a vapor barrier.
What size was the older cabin? You said it heated up really quickly and maybe that is why there was more condensation. Our "little" cabin would drip lots of moisture down the windows but not our "big" cabin. I think you are correct when you are thinking that it will take longer to heat up because of its size and therefore won't create as much moisture. Since your new cabin is mostly log-that will take much longer to heat too-logs retain a lot of cold.
Do you have interior pictures you could post?
Where we did drywall we will not bother taping/mudding the corners because I'm pretty sure they would crack anyways. We are going to be putting wooden strips over the seams, in the corners and over the screw heads.
Until you get comfortable with your new cabin I think you are bound to have many questions. Keep "picking" the brains of people who should know-especially people up your way with their own places. Try not to get frustrated...you will hear dozens of different opinions. A log home builder might be a good resource for your unique situation (stick built addition to log cabin).
Best of luck! Congratulations too...it isn't all stress and worry!
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2012 06:35pm
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I assume you have more heating days than cooling days, as you mentioned cold winters, but did not specify a location. As such an interior vapor barrier or retarder such as the kraft paper used to face some fiberglass, should be utilized. The Tyvek on the exterior is supposed to allow water vapor pass through to the outside. There are times when it messes up which is the reason I like old fashioned building felt; tar paper. But the synthetics work most of the time. Their main purpose is to shed water on the exterior plane.
We have a cabin (16x30) that is now entering it's 4th winter. We use it every other weekend from September through May. It sits unheated between uses. Winter temperatures get down below freezing with some weeks down into the minus temps (F). The interior is frequently down around 20 F when we snowshoe in. We use a wood stove and a direct (outside) vented propane heater for heat.
The interior has one wall and the ceiling in T&G aspen and pine. The other three walls are 5/8 drywall. The floor is ceramic tile over cement board over the OSB subflooring. The cabin goes through many heat up and cool down cycles each fall and winter. The tile floor has not cracked, neither have the grout joints. The drywall has not cracked anywhere. (I will point out that when I did the final joint filling it was on the last day of my work weekend. The cabin cooled and temperatures dropped to below freezing. Some of the joints cracked and expanded due to freezing the moisture that had not yet dried out. I repaired it in spring and everything has been fine since. )
My opinion, FWIW, is that drywall and tile should present no problems. I believe it is more likely the cabin shifted due to improper footing depths, which caused cracking in those cabins with cracks that have shown up. I could be wrong; it's just my feeling since our experience has been so positive.
We also do not get any condensation on walls or anything in the cabin. Our humidity is never all that high anyways. As the building is warmed there should be no reason to get condensation unless there are non vented heaters in use. That gas oven will give off water vapor; perhaps don't use it for heating and see what happens. As air warms it can hold more water so normally heating up a space will dry it out.
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