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libby in ohio
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 12:47pm
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So I'm the art teacher in ohio with 4 kids and the cute husband (from the scale model pictures). I am going to begin building my art studio in my backyard next weekend and I'm getting pretty nervous. I've been thinking about this for a few years and planning it for 8 months, but I am a phone call away from ordering everything in my $2600 lumber yard quote and days away from pounding in my batten boards to plot out my corners. Today at school, I got a "you're in over your head" speech from a well-meaning shop teacher whom I've asked advice from in the planning process.
While this is certainly true (last week, I bought a used nail gum on c-list and borrowed an air compressor and went to try it out and didn't even have a hose or fittings to attach the two AND didn't even realize my mistake until I had plugged the two things in) I have to believe I can get this done. It wont be perfect (I remember reading one post on this forum from a man who said there wasn't a wall in his cabin that was square and I took heart), but I want to do it. How many of you started at my level (beginner with people to ask advice from) and suceeded?
I guess I just need some cheerleaders here!-
thanks-
Libby
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Martian
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 01:00pm
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We were all novices at some point. Take your time, measure twice before cutting, and think through your next move. Its not rocket science!
Has anyone told you about 3,4,5 'ing the corners to get them square?
Tom
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bostonman98
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 01:18pm
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This past summer I somehow convinced my entire Fathers side of the family to pull together some funds for me to remodel a Cabin my grandfather had built in the 60's, of which was in total disarray.
I had worked on a construction site the previous summer, but hauling trash all 3 months didn't help gain too much experience. Other than that I had only had nominal carpentry skills. I dove head first into this project with a friend of mine. There was a good family friend who was a plumber by trade but knew almost anything there was to do with construction.
With his help and my friends and mines energy we nearly finished it, going to put the last finishing touches next month! The walls aren't level, and it's teetering on rocks but we did it. I felt like I rebuilt that thing at least three times with all the mistakes. After finishing that all I want to do is build another one! Good luck and you can most definitely do it!
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Rifraf
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 01:20pm
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Libby,
You are not alone, im not carpenter but im getting things done. Dont be afraid to lean on your available sources for information, if you dont know how to get it done just look it up and ask an experienced friend or contact. There are many many pros , and career builders who like many other folks "get a big head" and loose sight of that line between helpful and hurtful.
You can do it, you have all you need to get it done. Stay calm, do your research and get started. There are many people here who have answered questions for me and kept me from making mistakes, where others like this shop teacher may have just told me im in over my head.
If you are passionate about doing this, dont let someone else stop you.
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hattie
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 01:28pm
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It is so easy for people to give you "advice" that you are over your head. If you are passionate about doing something just go ahead and do it. Maybe the finished product won't be "perfect" but you will have the satisfaction of having done it yourself. This is how we all learn - by doing.
I am sure the first time you started teaching you didn't feel very confident either, but you did it and it got easier and better as you went along. That is life. Learning as you go.
I'm sure when you had your first child you wondered what you had gotten yourself into and if you would be a good parent to that child - but you did it and now look at you with FOUR children!!!
It might be fun for you to keep a journal about your build and then you will be able to look back on it and laugh at the mistakes and troubles you had to overcome along the way. Take lots of photos too!
You can do this. Don't let anyone try to quash your dreams! If Bob and I had listened to everyone who tried to tell us we were nuts to move here and build our dream, we would be living in a big city and leading boring lives. I'm glad we didn't listen to them. GO FOR IT!! There will be lots of tears shed in frustration, but you can do it!!   
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 01:31pm
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Not sure what you are planning to build.
Do you have detailed drawings?
Can you read the drawings and think through how the pieces go together?
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libby in ohio
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 02:07pm
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Wow! thanks for the well wishes... I really appreciate your advice and support. I am building a 14 x 16 ft. art studio on piers with a shed-style roof (14 ft. tall at the peak with a loft over 1/2 of the space)
To Martian:-
thanks for the advice on the 3,4,5 technique. I have photocopied stuff from books on this and plan to try it, although I always joke that I'm an art teacher not a math teacher, so I'll have to put my thinking cap on.
Bostonman 98: I'd love to see pictures! Its funny how you get a "high" from building stuff. Its like that for me when I make art and make stuff in general.
Hattie- You are so wise. Thank you. My husband and I had twins to start out and that was a steep learning curve but the best adventure of my life. One of the goals for me with this project is to include our kids so they can be a part of building something from scratch themselves. They are 10, 10, 8 and 4, so I'm sure there are jpbs for all of them.
Mtn Don: I've done lots of drawings (I'm GOOd at that!), made a scale model, and recently made detailed "blueprints" with tons of notes on them. I had them laminated so I could have them out all the time to look at.
I sat down for over an hour with my model and blueprints with a guy at our local lumber yard who was beyond patient with me and he helped figure out everything material-wise from the cement in the holes to the rafters and roof. I feel pretty confident, although this last thread on cathedral roof insulation (mine is 2x10s with a metal roof and osb under) made me nervous. I am putting R30 insulation there which is 8.5 inches thick. Do I need to do these baffles to leave space too? I plan to have a natural gas heater (vented) installed so I suppose there will be some condensation from that. I need a vaper barrier under the insulation and between the drywall?
Thanks again-
Libby
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 02:36pm
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Standard R30 fiberglass batts are normally 9.5 inches thick. There are high density R30 batts (sometimes called R30C) that take that down to about 8 1/4. You should try for a 1 inch space above the insulation, below the sheathing and have a continuous ridge vent as well as soffit vents. Ohio is mostly climate zone 5, or 4 or 4 marine. As such ideally you would have a minimum R38 in a ceiling. But if it's up to you or your inspector, if any.
With a provided air space and not compressing the insulation you may not need the baffles. Their real purpose is to protect the soffit vents in construction where the ceiling insulation is in the attic floor and is the blown in type. The baffles keep that lower area free.
For the climate zone you are in you should use a vapor barrier on the inside, just under the drywall or other wall paneling. Do an excellent job at sealing the seams and joints.
A direct vented gas heater does not add to the interior humidity, but people and activities do.
Before you commence any step if there is any doubt in your mind about how something should be done or why, it is best to ask. I've seen a lot of errors over time, made some myself, and errors are always the devil to correct later. Sometimes a double devil.
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idacabinrat
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 03:35pm
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The thing that helped us the most was finding a local lumberyard for our supplies. The guys there were all very patient with us and often times gave us great ideas and tips on how to do things we never would have thought of. Don't be afraid to ask questions! Also dont over think it, just have fun and enjoy the process! We had very little experience and by asking the right people got lots of help and now we are just finishing up our cabin and can start enjoying it.
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 04:24pm - Edited by: trollbridge
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Libby....we have a wooden sign that we have displayed in our cabin since the very beginning. It says "Do Not Ever Underestimate Your Abilities". I have stopped and read it so many times when I have needed a boost and I have reminded my husband about it several times during moments of frustration. There has been a few times where it literally fell off of wherever it was propped and my husband has declared "see...even the sign knows better!" but I pick it up, brush it off and re-display it as a constant reminder to us that we can do it. Funny cause even just telling you about it today is like a sign from above that I need to realize I have the ability to cope with the curve ball life has just thrown me. Strange the way someone above works.........hmmm, actually really strange.........
Anyways I know you can do it....sounds like you are good at picking brains for information and you have your dad to help. It's like when you had twins...you didn't give up, you found a way to meet their needs right? Not to say you won't have lots of moments of frustration but you'll make it and soon you will be putting together a very creative piece of art and thinking about how you are so much more inspired in your new studio and you'll be feeling so proud of the fact that you and your family built it yourselves!!!!!
BTW....be sure to post pictures and also I love the idea of using umbrellas for your loft railing---spindles I am guessing? Can't wait to see it completed!!! Best of luck to you....have fun!!!!!
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 04:36pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: Martian We were all novices at some point. Take your time, measure twice before cutting, and think through your next move. Its not rocket science! Has anyone told you about 3,4,5 'ing the corners to get them square? Tom
Agreed. My biggest chunk of advice, keep everything plumb, level and square, be precise on your cuts, right down to the 1/16th of an inch. . What starts out as just being off a smidge compounds itself 10 fold as you get closer to finsih and takes so much more time. This being square from the beginning pays off huge as you get to the final stages. You will see what I mean. The 3 4 5 works great, but for $60, I bought me a real nice laser square. Sure makes life easier.
I'd say maybe hire a local framer by the hour to assist you. I did, I amhandy,but just wanted to make sure the procedure I used was right. Best investment I ever made and he brought all his own air tools and in 9 days, we had a finished dried in shell. I have since purchased every type of air nailer available from pin nailer all the way to framing, roofing, siding, brads, crown stapler, finish plus even 2 palm nailers. I can build a home from scratch now. I learned a lot in those 9 days.
Another note I may add, when doing your layout, ie pulling measurements for framing, pick a corner and pull all your measurements from that point. I mean every measurement. Example, NE corner, any wall running east to west, pull from the east end, even if the wall starts half way down in the middle. If you are measuring a north to south wall, pull all your measurements from the north wall. If you pull one wall from front to back, then the opposite wall from back to front, none of your studs will align from side to side, sheeting becomes an issue, rafter payoput doesnt work etc. Sheeting, sheets will end up in between studs etc. And when you start sheeting the sides, start from that same coener, ie NE corner. Does this make any sense? (of course, you can pick any corner you want, just start from that corner for the rest of the build.
Otherwise, plumb, level square. Plumb level and square.
If something is off, stop, fix it right away. It may waste some wood and take some time, but its much worse at the ends.
Do you have plans? Look at http://www.townandcountryplans.com I bought mine from them. Follot it, you wil be fine. Understand door headers, king studs, jack stuuds, wall studs are 92 5/8" long, with a bottom plate and 2 top plates (interlcok incorners), you end up with a wall a smidge over 8 feet long. Cement slab or floor joist? If you go floor joint, how wide are they? 2X8? If so, your siding needs to be 9 feet long to cover up rimjoist.
Do you have plans? Foundation, slab or joist?
Ok,s een your follow up post, some questions already answered in there.
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rayyy
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 05:04pm
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You Ken Do it.Remember it's fun,challenging and exciting.One day you'll be out there working on another creation of yours and you'll suddenly stop and look around you and you'll get this great big grinn on your face. That's a felling you can't beat!
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trollbridge
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 05:10pm - Edited by: trollbridge
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Oh man....I've never heard of this 3,4,5 technique and we didn't pull all our measurements from the same spot! LOL! We were precise about our cuts though and everything is true and plumb-amazing! Every time we check something for level we make a joke about how "that's odd....it's level! Must have done something right!" LOL! Sometimes we just shake our heads when trying to do something and say " this is such a frick show!" Ahh...good memories and lots of great laughs!!!
My husband just had his birthday and our daughter in law bought him a new level because the last time we went up north she laughed her butt off when my husband came down the ladder and literally his 4 foot aluminum level impaled him cause it was leaning up against the woodbox. All of a sudden he yells "What's up my a** and is teetering like a tripod trying not to knock over the TV and stand it is on. There is the level dangling from his cheeks....was so funny......we all laughed at his expense poor guy. Ripped another pair of jeans and I think he just needs to stay off ladders....he has a bad history with them. Anyways he ended up braking that level in half when he beat it up afterwards!! Was too too funny!!!!!!
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VC_fan
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 06:33pm
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I know you asked for a pep talk, and this may not sound like one. I've now built two sheds and a shack. The first shed was 8x10 from a "kit" which was just a filled materials list with basic instructions. There's no way to say how much I learned from the process. The second thing I built was our 16'x20' two story shack. Again, lots of learning. The third was a relatively nice 12'x16' shed in our backyard, complete with cedar siding instead of T-111 which made a huge difference in the appearance. I'm a registered professional mechanical engineer for what that's worth. And engineers are sometimes known for way overkilling everything - not me.
The nice shed cost as much or more in materials than we would have spent by going to a relatively upscale (read "Amish"-style) shed place and picking one out. There's a huge markup on these materials; the builders that buy wholesale have a big cost advantage in materials to help cover their labor. After three buildings my framing and, more importantly, trimming skills aren't nearly as good as are clearly evident in the purchased shed.
Now here's a distinction I suggest you keep in mind. My shack is in the middle of the woods where nobody can see it. Your art studio is in your back yard. If it doesn't look like a quality product it's not going to have a positive effect on your property value. It may cost you even more than what you put into it.
Also, others may feel differently but I'd suggest you add at least 50% to your basic materials list and more like 100% for overlooked things (screws, nails, ... - every time you go to the lumberyard you'll need more stuff than you ever thought about up front).
OK, so where's the pep talk after all this gloom and doom? DO IT! You'll never regret taking on this project. But don't ignore your limitations. Get help. Consider having a high quality building delivered or contracting out the shell. With your job and kids you're busy. There's still plenty of work - the fun part of the project - to be done in completing the inside and exterior details and turning it into your own. Do it, but make sure you scope the project so it's fun for you and your family.
I hope the community doesn't ostracize me for this, but this forum is a great chance to share our opinions and experiences. I'm just offering mine up for what they're worth.
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DaJTCHA
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 06:57pm - Edited by: DaJTCHA
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My best advice is the pep talk I give my kids when we get on the subject, "You can do ANYTHING you put your mind too. Once you commit to the fact that you CAN do it, you can move mountains if you felt like it!" Sometimes, believing you can do it is all that matters and the rest of the puzzle just seems to fall in place as needed. So, BELIEVE you can do it and don't ask anyone else's advice on whether you can do it or not because they're not doing it (and who knows...they just might be negative with jealousy)!
Now, I'm a bit of an overachiever and I've been know to analyze things and visualize every step in my head repeatedly and actually correct errors before I even physically have done any of the work. This is a good attribute. I'm also willing to know how far my abilities can go and where I need to put in a little study time. I can mentally do anything (I refuse to think otherwise), but physically...at times...I realize a little help here and there doesn't hurt. While building my "Shed Mahal" I used the help of a friend while framing the walls and I contracted to a metal roofing crew to install the roof, but other than that...it is and was all me doing the work. I'm just about finished and there are very few errors, not because I'm that "good" but because I was willing to study up (the internet is great and you can learn to do just about anything by reading and watching YT videos) and put in the time. It appears that you are no different than me. Admit you're ready to get this thing started and to get it done correctly! Now go do it!
Dj
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ErinsMom
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 06:59pm
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Question: As a teacher, what would you tell your kids?
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larry
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 09:13pm
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the person who said you're in over your head must live a boring life on "the safe side". get to it girl!
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Just
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# Posted: 11 Apr 2012 09:35pm - Edited by: Just
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its like stepping off a cliff, your heart in your throat ,great feeling , just enjoy!!!
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VTweekender
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2012 08:41am
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Love is in the eyes of the beholder....strap on that toolbelt and love every minute of it...embrace the experience...and enjoy the studio for years to come...the only one you need to satisfy is you..
Kev
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libby in ohio
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2012 12:35pm
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Thanks to all of you with your wise words. Erins Mom asked what I would say as a teacher and that really made sense to me. When I was teaching my youngest to swim last summer, I was in the water with him but I told him there was no way for him to learn to swim without getting in the water. Some things you just have to learn by doing. I have watched the youtube videos, read the books and talked to so many people and now I feel like its time to "get in the water". VT Weekender's comment made me smile. Its like that Jon Bon Jovi song about wanting to make a memory- I think everytime I look at this little studio in my backyard I will remember the process- with my kids, with my husband, with my dad- and that's a good thing.
VC_Fan- thanks for the experienced advice. I have seen my original (naive) estimate of how much this project would cost soar, but when I think about what my neighbor paid to, essentially, add a room to a house, we are about $70,000 cheaper. Hopefully the property values aren't hurt by my little dream, but if I were worried about that I wouldn't let my 4 kids in the house. There's nothing like 3 boys (and all the balls, skateboards etc. that come with them) to mess up a house!
Lots of people suggested an amish shed to retrofit, but so much of the fun to this point has been me sketching my ideas and getting to build what I thought of. Hopefully the next part is satisfying too-
Thanks-
Libby
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VC_fan
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2012 05:05pm
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Libby:
Oh, to be able to think as you do..... Sometimes having to think like an engineer (I seem to have little choice in the matter) really sucks. I anticipated your response so here's my planned response. You've demonstrated that you're going in with your eyes open. Buy everybody safety glasses and gloves, double your budget, quadruple your schedule, and have a blast! And don't forget to post pictures - I'm sure a number of us are anxious to see your progress.
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libby in ohio
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# Posted: 12 Apr 2012 06:07pm
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VC fan: my dad, who will be helping out is a retired civil engineer and fine woodworker, so he tempers all my loose-goosy art approach, thank goodness. I'm sure I vex him with my casual approach (just like he does me with his slow, methodical process) .... But we get it done in the end.
We dig our piers next weekend-will post pics then
Libby
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Spock
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# Posted: 13 Apr 2012 03:28am
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Quoting: Martian Take your time, measure twice before cutting, and think through your next move.
I don't think anyone can improve on Martian's advice. Just repeating it as a way to encourage you.
I have no idea why your colleague tried to discourage you. Maybe he was as insensitive with his wife and he had a crick from having to sleep on the couch?
If you can saw square and drive in a nail, there is no reason you cannot do it, IF you follow Martian's advice.
Stating the obvious, I might possibly add to it though... in addition to thinking it through, read, read, read how to's. Advice from sites like these is also great, but sometimes (not often but...) helpful advisers extend themselves beyond their level of competence, so doublecheck advice you get.
Ideally you might have someone in your circle of friends with construction experience, if not, as a teacher, you know the value of studying ;D
2) Always strive for perfection. You'll get a result you'll be proud of, that will add, not detract from the value of your house, and remember, you don't just have to satisfy yourself, the building inspector can ruin you whole day... Try and establish a good rapport with him right away, he is potentially an INVALUABLE source of advice!
Good luck! You'll do fine!
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