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Aftertherevolution
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# Posted: 14 Feb 2012 10:42am
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Thought I would open a new thread for this as it seems like a bit of a separate topic and I haven't found it in here yet, or the right search terms at least. The short of it is I'm looking for some good info on...
1) the environmental and health effects of using pressure treated wood. As well as other methods of wood preservation (like soaking in gas/tar etc).
2) what alternatives are ppl familiar with. I tend to think of cedar and hemlock being good, but I don't know the specifics of it. Ie. if I was doing a pole building construction, if I sank hemlock poles in the ground without treating them in this way, I would expect it to not last not too long. If I encased it in cement would it be better? those kinda things. :)
I suspect most will likely say just to use PT wood, but because I'm on a shared piece of land with a community of people who are trying to keep our environmental footprints low, I need to do the research on it.
On another note, I've gotten a hold of that great book, Pole Building Construction. But it is several decades old, and I wonder if anyone knows of newer resources (especially of the wood preservation).
And might I just add a note of appreciation for u all for creating such a great resource for people. I often don't get involved in online forums, but I love how the discussions here are actually building a large resource of searchable info for the world. Good stuff!
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Just
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# Posted: 14 Feb 2012 03:10pm
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You can no longer buy cresol in ontario .like lots of good stuff it's banned . that's the only thing i no as good as p.t.
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wakeslayer
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# Posted: 14 Feb 2012 05:38pm
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Would a CPES pre-treatment, and high grade epoxy like West Systems work?
I have used that to treat stringers in a couple classic boats I have restored.
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fpw
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# Posted: 14 Feb 2012 05:40pm
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Large overhangs, keep the water off the building. A little borax and penetreat keeps the bugs out.
Don't use used motor oil any more, guess it has all kinds of nasty stuff in it.
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SamH
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# Posted: 15 Feb 2012 12:05am - Edited by: SamH
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Concrete piers with the base of the poles above ground level. I live in central Arkansas and around here wood either rots or bugs eat it very fast, but some of the old barns here are still solid with pier and post construction. One old barn, my father built in the 1930's, was still going stong until it took a direct hit from and F4 tornado 4 years ago.
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turkeyhunter
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# Posted: 15 Feb 2012 08:26am - Edited by: turkeyhunter
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Quoting: fpw Don't use used motor oil any more, guess it has all kinds of nasty stuff in it.
my family and other farmers used this back in the day to preserve fence posts...
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rayyy
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# Posted: 15 Feb 2012 06:59pm
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I know I once built a split rail fence using maple 8x8 timbers soaked in old motor oil for the posts but they still rotted to nothing below grade. got about 5 years out of them at best. I'm sold on modern pressure treated lumber.It is no longer made with nasty arsnic and harmfull chemicals.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 15 Feb 2012 07:25pm
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One of the advantages of pole building is that the combination of poles sunk in the ground and some sort of exterior sheathing makes a nicely rigid building. Using concrete piers and perching the above ground wooden components on top loses one of the advantages.
Redwood and cedar are good if they are all heartwood, the darker colored wood. The lighter sapwood makes for great insect food.
ACQ PT wood is environmentally more friendly than the old CCA. It may not be totally benign; we may not know about for a decade or two. There are also some other insect resistant woods. Not all are available everywhere, and most are insect resistant, not insect proof. If the poles deteriorate after say 15 years it's a big job to repair. At present ACQ would be my choice for a pole barn.
Is there a reason you wish to build a pole building? For longevity it is hard to beat a poured concrete perimeter foundation
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Icebear
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# Posted: 15 Feb 2012 07:55pm
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If you're putting posts in the ground you will want them to be PT. I have pulled out fence post from my land which are solid heartwood from local species which are rated for 30-50 years below ground. Over half the post was gone below ground level in 15 years.
Fence posts are one thing, but we are talking about structural timbers.
If you have very dry soils, and an arid climate you might consider it - BUT knowing it will not last.
If you really can't use any form of PT then I'm with MtnDon - go concrete. The environmental impact of concrete is far worse than the impact of PT chemicals in my opinion but that is another discussion.
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Borrego
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# Posted: 15 Feb 2012 08:28pm
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I've heard soaking them in diesel helps with pests.
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 15 Feb 2012 08:32pm
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And for PT you want "foundation grade". In ACQ that means labeled to be guaranteed to contain 0.60 pcf minimum ACQ content. (Same as the old CCA would be). There are other types of treatments and their numbers can be different. The key words are "foundation grade", not just ground contact.
One other must for foundation grade is that there be NO heartwood. SYP is an excellent choice for PT. But the heartwood is too dense to absorb the chemicals very well. So true foundation grade has no heartwood. If you;ve ever cut a PT 4x4 or larger that came from the local lumber yard or big box that was 0.40, and you may see how the chemicals never penetrated the heartwood you frequently find.
Foundation grade starts out as kiln dried. Then it is treated. Then it is dried again to kiln dry specs.
And it should go without needing to say, all fasteners and any metal that comes in contact with the PT wood, must be approved for the chemicals used; usually hot dipped galvanized or stainless steel.
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Aftertherevolution
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# Posted: 16 Feb 2012 10:58pm
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Wow.. Lots of great info here.
Pole construction was one option I was thinking about just cause the book came across my hands.  To be honest, the biggest draw was the treehouse like effect it would have, as the property was logged 30+ years ago and there aren't a lot of large timbers still standing. Seemed like some interesting possibilities.
The possibility though, sparked a discussion about PT with my co-landowners, and thought I would do a little more research on it for us.
We're in Ontario in a northern, snowy region FYI.
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