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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2011 02:16pm
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Hello,
Trying to find a good set of plans, pretty specific. Here is what I am trying to locate and maybe you guys can help point me in the right direction: (by the way, thank you in advance for any help or advise)
- All one room, except a small 8x8 bathroom.
- I want to add a deck that spans the width out to 15 ft.
- This will be on a base built up on concrete blocks.
Now, I am pretty easy on the layout, but I want to keep it simple. I plan to have like 6-8 of us build this next March on my ranch.
I have a limited budget and will probably order all the materials through Lowes or Home Depot (we do the 12-24 months no interest financing).
I do not like 4x4 type construction, I tend to use 6x6 posts as I am all about strength when building (you should see the decks I built on the last two houses.. heh)
I can do a base, but I was debating getting pre-built trusses to make sure they are done right, but would not mind doing them myself if I could do them a lot less expensive.
We 'wanted' a 28x32 place, but the cost was about $2000 more when we added it all up.
We plan to use Hardi Board as the heat and sun in SW Texas tends to just wear out anything else.
Still reading a lot of the posts, but figured to add one of my own ;)
Thanks guys and gals!
Russ
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2011 02:57pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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I bought my plans online from http://www.townandcountryplans.com and you can modify those as needed if you like. They have all of it, ie foundation, cross section, floor plan and elevations. I used white out to modify my floor plan before submitting to the county for my permit. They OK'd it with ease. Pass final inspection with ease also.
We have another thread in here about keeping cost down, ie making dimensions fit lumber sizes, ie multiples of 4 feet, both width and length. And gable ends at 4, 6 or 8 feet so as to reduce any waste.
(thanks to the mod for adding the link to the reduced wood waste thread too. ;D )
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2011 06:17pm
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Excellent idea. It is why I am trying to keep the dimensions divisible by 4. (24x24). I would like to add a little more room and go 28x32, but the added cost due to the 28ft span of trusses as well as all the other costs in adding just 32sq ft of space makes it a little more than my budget.. heh.
I would rather keep it at 24x24 and make sure to use hardi plank for the external walls etc.
Now, that log cabin post I saw earlier with the 2x8's was pretty darn cool. If I can locate the manual/book he wrote on that, and figure out how to heat and cool it with a 24,500 btu window unit, I might be interested in that route as it was really cool looking .. grin.
Russ
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2011 07:24pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Russ, if you like more sq footage, keep it 24 deep, but make it loner, ie 24X36 etc. So the roof span remains the same. As for hardi panel, you will still need to sheet it with a wall board, maybe OSB 1/2" should do. My plans called for wall board then plank siding. I just used T1-11. But the county told me to go 5/8" T1-11 is all. That cement siding has other nice features like harder to catch fire. And you being in Texas...
24 deep, if you have a load bearing wall in the middle, makes the span happen with smaller lumber too. I have already purchased my next project, they Peniac, I will stretch is so my rafters etc can remain the same. Just making it longer is all. And i have opened up the floor plan quite a bit to give it more open space and also easier building for me.
As an example, I lengthened the porch the full width, moved the door in the middle, looking right down the hall area (stupid to have to walk through a family room to get to the inside) and just got rid of lots of stub walls added a window in the kitchen and moved the fridge to the corner to get rid of a small wasted counter space. Added an entry closet for wet coats etc. I also like the fact all plumbing for wash room, hot water tank and bathroom was all close together and all interior walls. Kitchen sink is a little distance, but the plumbing will be easy to run ad the floor joist go the same direction and I can bring plumbing up through the floor under the cabinet to keep it out of the exterior wall. (freezing) Right now, tis 24X30, but I can stretch the 30, maybe 4 more feet each side to make all rooms larger, ie both bedrooms, family dining and kitchen. Leave the interior lay out about the same. Another option i s extending the kitchen over the porch and remove some of the porch. But I want that end to face south west and with the porch in place, I can get some sunlight in the winter for heat when sun is lower in the horizon and in the summer, sun is higher, I can be shaded from it.
Original Peniac floor plan
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After my modifications
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2011 07:42pm - Edited by: jrbarnard
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I thought the hardi went right onto the studs, with the exception of the weather guard in between. I did not know I also needed OSB between. I was planning on using 4x8 sheets of Hardiplank.
My concern, in using hardi plank, was not so much fire retardant, since either way it is going up if a fire hits, but for weather shield. So often I see cabins out there that the sides are just deplorable since the sun just beats them up after a while.
My concern was to keep it from rotting.
Oh, also, I like the 24x30 aspect. I was planning on having the porch on the 24' side so the trusses would just continue and give me a more vaulted porch. If I keep the 8' walls, I would not have very much head room to add ceiling fans etc onto the deck unless I did it this way.
I looked at the site you recommended and I like the Huntsman a lot, but not sure I could fit two ceiling fans under that deck, and in the Texas heat, ya gotta have the fans out there.. heh
I also like the Saskatoon style, but modifying it and knowing exactly what I need to modify would be tough.
If I could figure out if the Huntsman porch was tall enough to allow 7' clearance under the fans, that might be the way to go.
Russ
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2011 11:42pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Russ, the 4X8 sheets of hardi plank may not need underlayment. I was thinking you where using the horizontal planks. But you better double check. I know the concrete stuff, the nails can bust right through so shear strength might be an issue. They should have into on the webpage. As for the higher ceiling, build it just like the plans, just use the longer studs for framing. Making it a foot taller wont really change a thing, just longer studs and sheeting on the sides.
Taking an existing plan already laid out, then just making suttle changes is easier and much cheaper than having one designed from scratch. The county can look at it and they will pencil in any special notes in red. In my area, they wanted so much snow load etc. And it passed. All those plans are build HD to pass is most areas. Example, my rafters (roof) were 16" OC, I could of easily went 24" and still made it, but figured HD is good!
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 18 Sep 2011 11:47pm - Edited by: jrbarnard
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I'll look into the underlay issue. I even considered using bricks, but that was too 'experience' prohibitive.
It's tough trying to keep it simple and still keep the costs down.. heh. I usually design the plans myself, but would love to have the plans already done, it is just hard to find a set of plans that are large enough, but will not increase the cost too much. Most plans do not have all one room, they have a bedroom and other stuff that just throws the costs up, and then I cannot see the inside to see if it looks like something I would want.
I'll browse a few other sites and plans though.. heh. I have time to look around since we are not going to do this till next March.
BTW: How hard would it be to take the Peniac and make the porch 15 ft out instead of 8? I like that layout, with your mods, but I would not care to have a w/d, rather leave that area open.. heh
Thanks for all the input!
Russ
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 12:05am
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Porch extension would be a snap. Of course, the roof pitch would be softer over the porch, so you could tie it in further up onto the existing roof or just run the roof on that side right to the outer edge of the porch, you forward wall would be load carrying but so would the porch post. As for the longer span, you would have to use either more timbers or larger ones or double ones to make that same span without supports (you dont want supports in the middle of your porch) Do you have high winds? A big porch makes for a great sail. One member has posted a great span calculator. You could could use 12" OC to keep from too big of timber making for a lower soffit. But if you go to the 9 foot ceilings, you would be find even with bigger timbers.
I'm surprised old Plickety Cat hasnt chimed on this one. Must be away, plickety always has great info on items like this.
Anyway, its lots of fun. It took me 9 days to get my dried in shell. I had subcontracted out the concrete footing/stemwall. So it was already when I get there. I went full footing/stemwall because I didnt want anyone under the place including critters (i have acces via a trap door in the floor). So far, zilch, not even small insects have gotten in.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 12:11am
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Well, I am a big deck person. On the last house, I peeled back the roof and rested 16' 2x8's on the frame of the house so the pitch was smaller, but I was able to extend 15' and leave it very open. I can build a good deck, but if the house plan is already there, like you said, getting the pitch would be tough and still have room for a couple fans.
I could, however, lose the porch on that side, and extend the trusses 15 feet out and do a vaulted porch on the end, then just turn the house and the door etc.. heh
That is what my current plan is.
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 12:27am
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Here is the floorplan with the extended porch and no washer/dryer
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 12:31am - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: jrbarnard I could, however, lose the porch on that side, and extend the trusses 15 feet out and do a vaulted porch on the end, then just turn the house and the door etc.. heh
Or leave the smaller porch on the original plan and wrap it right around to the one side or even both sides so it covers 3 sides of the house. With nice stone wrapped columns every 8 feet or so. Give that old country feeling.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 12:38am
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lol.. gotta keep the costs below 8k :p
I did, however, see a cool idea on here where they re-used fence pickets to finish out the interior.
I was thinking about leaving the rafters open inside, vs using drywall on a ceiling. I like the look and feel of that, but I have to figure out how to hide all the wires and such that I run to the lights. I may just add metal conduit to make it look better.
That also means I need to figure a way to secure the insulation to the roof internally.
So many questions, so little time or money :p
But, having fun thinking it through.
Time for bed though, I have to be up for work in about 4-5 hours.
Russ
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toyota_mdt_tech
Member
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 12:43am - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Russ, wait, one more floor plan with extended porch over the side. :D
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 05:58am
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*grin*
Okay, Mr. Layout ;)
How about, that porch is 15ft out, the other porch goes away, and the entryway is on the side with the porch?...oh.. and a bowling alley in the basement! *chuckles*
I doubt I could squeeze in both porches, but if I moved the entryway AND extended that one porch.. that would be a good setup, no?
Russ
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 12:09pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Like this???
Floor plan doesnt show it, but there is a bowling alley in the basement. :D
And this way, you wouldnt have th build the kickout for th eroof on that side, so the materials saved can be used to extending it out that way. You could put a hip type roof on that end, or a kickout roof or jsut extend the existing roofline and then either leave the porch ceiling open or add a storage area. Or raise the roof and make a loft. possibilities are endless.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 12:19pm
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Yea, that is more the idea I had in mind. I like!
Do they show the framing needed etc when you order the plans? I could not tell from the pictures what all they put into the plan.
Russ
p.s. and thanks Toyota ;)
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OzMallo
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 03:32pm
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The Carolina Cottage is part of Blue Ridge Mountain tradition with its wrap-around porch overlooking mountain trails. A combination of siding, aluminum standing seam roof highlight modern rustic living. An open plan allows space to flow; functions between living, dining and kitchen become interactive. If desired, the cozy cabin can grow in all directions as the family and new friends return year after year.
http://www.mallohomeplan.com
Any of the cottages or cabins that you choose can be modified.
Cabin Elevation
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Cabin Plan
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jrbarnard
Member
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 03:50pm
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OzMallo, very nice, but I am betting it is out of my price range.
R
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 09:35pm
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Quoting: jrbarnard Do they show the framing needed etc when you order the plans? I could not tell from the pictures what all they put into the plan.
They have a "cross section" as part of the plans and I just submitted my drawings to a lumber store and they figured everything out, ie windows etc. Then it was delivered and waiting for me when I showed up ready to build. Of course, I cant tell you how many more trips I made to Home Depot because I added or upgraded. I ended up sheating the top in the attic (attic floor) just tyo make it easier to build the rafters, I had a nice floor to walk on. But lumber was cheap back in 08.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2011 09:40pm
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Okay, I have most of it figured out, but here is one aspect I am perplexed with (okay.. one more.. heh)
I really like the look of leaving the rafters/trusses open, but I want to have insulation.
How do you find a "happy medium" to this sort of issue?
You mean I could take this plan to Home Depot and they will figure out the material list for me? wow.. that would be awesome.
I have a friend that is going to give me two really nice 5'x7' solid pane windows. They do not open, but they sure will add a lot of sunlight.
Russ
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2011 10:12pm
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Quoting: jrbarnard I really like the look of leaving the rafters/trusses open, but I want to have insulation. How do you find a "happy medium" to this sort of issue?
I mentioned a trick on your trusses thread. Sheet the ceiling, add insulation topside and then add fake beams. You can use 4X4 or the header material 4X6, its not too bad in price for the untreated stuff. But you would want that higher ceiling you mentioned.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2011 10:42pm
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Good ideas, either way. Again, Thanks Toyota:)
Russ
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2011 11:45pm
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I would not apply the Hardie panel or most any other material that is intended to be the cosmetic finish directly to the studs. Fully sheathing all the exterior walls with 7/16" OSB directly on the exterior face of the studs has many advantages. Number one is strength. It is rated to be used in braced wall construction. Once it is covered with building felt or housewrap it is protected from the weather. Any finish paneling, siding, whatever can be applied over that as the cosmetic finish. If the cosmetic panel is damaged that does not immediately affect the integrity of the structural OSB panel underneath. And that is not to mention that in many locales a structure without structural brace wall panels (OSB for example) at least at the corners will not pass inspection.
Hardie panel and plank is one of a handful of wall finishes that are approved for use in areas prone to wildfire. It will not burn. They make trim in cement fiber as well as fascia and soffit material. Couple that with a metal roof and a fireproof (metal) skirt if the building in on a wood foundation and you can beat a wildfire if you couple all the above with keeping a 30 ft radius clear of most combustibles.
Hardie reformulated their products about a year or so ago and the panel and plank products are now designed for a southern or northern climate.
G/L
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 21 Sep 2011 05:34am
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yea, I will factor in OSB under the hardi, gotcha. Good point.
R
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Bevis
Member
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# Posted: 21 Sep 2011 10:18am
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To save on space inside, try using pocket doors to the bedrooms and bathroms. On my cabin in Tenn, that's what I used. I like a more open feeling cabin too. the less walls the better for me, and deffinately a big porch.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 21 Sep 2011 10:46am
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Yea, I want to have it look more like a cabin, so am not stuck on hardi plank, just not sure I want to factor in too too much more costs to get something else.
I am not that concerned with fire retardant since, as clearly seen in Bastrop, if a fire does hit...it is going to burn no matter what I have out there. I just want the hardi for the sake of termites and sun decay.
If I can find an alternative that does not cost me an arm and a leg that looks nicer, I'll go that route.
Still debating the idea Stoney has in his post, but have not had a response from the email I sent to buy that ebook.
Russ
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MtnDon
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# Posted: 21 Sep 2011 10:47am
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On pocket doors: if anyone is considering them but have not actually lived with them they should first visit a model home or someplace where they can try them out in person. They are great space savers but they are not for every application or every user. They slow down your passage through if they have to be opened and closed each time used.
To me, the more I have to open and close a pocket door the more I dislike them. We do have one in our cabin; for the toilet/shower room. It is virtually always slid back into the wall. There's only the two of us. If we have company the door gets some use.
The pocket door sets that are sold in the big box stores are okay for occasional use in my book. There are much better units made and available through window and door specialty vendors. They use more metal framing and track with more and larger rollers.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2011 09:44pm
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Hey Toyota,
I ordered the Muskwa plans instead. They most closely resemble what I am planning to do.
I will end up extending the porch all the way across the front as well as widening the house from 14 to 16, more than likely.
Either way, I will also raise the roof a little so I can add in a loft, to increase the sleeping room. I figure I can add a 2nd bedroom with a loft design.
We will see how it comes out!
Russ
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2011 10:11pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Well, add the loft after the final inspection. Then they wont know about the extra sq footage and your taxes will be lower. ;D
Just use whiteout to make corrections and changes. Its all I did when I submitted my plans. You may be able to lighten up in some areas, example, my roof had rafters every 16", I could of went 24" but decided to keep the extra HD. They are made to pass code in most areas, ie heavier snow load etc. So they kinda over designed them. Take those plans to your lumber store and they can figure out the package for you. Pay attention to front door size. Mine was a 30" door, i installed a std 36" door and made it swing open opposite direction. (most furniture/appliances need 36" opening)
Making it 16 instead of 14 may require the next size up ceiling joist. But making it longer, ie keeping the 14, but going 28 long or even 30, no changes in the ceiling rafters. Extending the porch the full length is a good idea. Are you going to move the doors to one of the ends like originally planned?
Did you buy a second set of plans (much cheaper after initial purchase) and a good idea. I always get 2 to 3 sets of plans.
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jrbarnard
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# Posted: 26 Sep 2011 10:18pm
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yea, I want a 3680 door, so will keep an eye on that.
I am not going to add the room and dividing wall for the bathroom, I want the entire thing left open. Instead, I plan to add a door to that wall and then just add the bathroom on there, with a sort of "porch" like roofline for an 8x8 addition.
I'll scan it in and mark it up when I get it and show you what I mean.
So, the entire room will be one big room and then I hope to add a loft.
I am hoping the trusses will not be that big a change, with me adding 2 more feet onto the span. I am also not sure how well a loft will go in with a gable style roof, so that will be interesting. I do not need stand-up room, just room to add in some sort of bed or two.
Russ
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