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Cal89
Member
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2024 10:40am - Edited by: Cal89
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Hello all,
I would like to get some opinions on best practices for my cabin flooring and under floor insulation. Ideally, I would like to use wood planks for flooring. I was thinking about #2 pine 6" wide. My cabin is in Vermont, so zone 6, cold and humid. I know vinyl might be best and also read about engineered hardwood which I might consider but I really hate vinyl, plastic etc. Cabin will be used for leisure and will also be rented out.
Secondly, the cabin floor is not currently insulated. It seems that there was fiberglass insulation underneath, but rodents got into it and it eventually fell down. The underneath is mostly accessible with 1/4 not accessible due to being too close to the ground. Would closed cell spray insulation be an option? If not, I've seen a video on YouTube about a guy that talked about bubble wrapped insulation over the existing subfloor with 1/2" strips of plywood over it and then another layer of subfloor. Any thoughts on this? I'm not planning to skirt the cabin after reading about skirting.
Thank you!
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2024 02:33pm
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Here is one idea from above if accessible. You can also do it from below by using four nails to hold the panels until cured then do a second or third panel again holding it in place until the foam has cured.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp_6AJeoYW8
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2024 04:23pm
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Quoting: Cal89 bubble wrapped insulation
Bubble wrap is not worth the time or money, IMO.
If you can add an inch (or more) on top of the existing floor I would add a layer of XPS foam. The pink foalular 150 is rated at 15 PSI = 2160 PSF. Put down a solid layer, no need for furring. Glue it down. Then glue another subfloor layer; 1/2" will work. Then whatever you want for the final visible floor.
We did my brothers cabin floor (60 yr old heirloom cabin) with 2 layers of 1 inch foam over the uninsulated old old pine board floor. Backer board and ceramic tile over that. But he had a 9 foot ceiling and we also replaced the doors, framing and all as a part of the renovation.
Depending on how many doors, etc that might work for you.
My cabin has R25 glass batts from underneath with the underside of the joists completely sheathed in 3/8" plywood. There's a minimum of 19" of work space to the ground though.
I skirted with metal roofing panels using lots of venting around the perimeter. No problems in 16 years.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 18 Dec 2024 04:31pm - Edited by: travellerw
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If you can afford spray foam, this its probably the way to go (it will be expensive).
What ICC describes is how our cabin is done, but it was planned during construction. So all the doors and other items were raised 2 3/4" to accommodate the foam and subfloor. It worked out very well as we walk around in our socks at -30C.
As to finish, we did "waterproof" laminate. Its a plank product that is a kind of hybrid of laminate and "luxury" vinyl. Absolutely zero issues through 3 Alberta winters and summers.
I also agree that bubblewrap is not worth your time or money. Any batt type insulation you put under WILL become a rodent home!
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2024 08:53am
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Quoting: ICC Bubble wrap is not worth the time or money, IMO
I completely agree. The cost is about the same as 1/2in foam board.
I found a good deal on 4in polyiso foam board. I used this in our floor. It does an amazing job keeping the floor warm. I'm covering it with thin plywood. I'm trying to seal everything up so mice dont have acess and if they get in theres no where to go.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2024 09:01am
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Bubble wrap is for packaging 
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Cal89
Member
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2024 12:56pm
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I'm mad at myself for not thinking to research this when I bought the place. The 1st thing I did was to replace all the doors and windows and redo the front and back siding. I might be able to add one inch of foam. I reckon this plus the subfloor and the floor will raise my floor with about two inches and best-case scenario would match the sliding door track.
I spoke to someone about closed cell, and he advised that the price for a 3inch 400ft2 that I have should be around $1500. The R value for this would be around 18-20. If I can find a company near where I am to do it, I might just do it.
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jsahara24
Member
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# Posted: 19 Dec 2024 01:59pm
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I did 2" of closed cell in my cabin floor, made an incredible difference....Definitely recommend it...
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SCSJeff
Member
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2024 12:28pm
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I still need to insulate under our floor too. I think I had brought this up before in another thread... I'm leery of spray foaming (or using any insulation that is not vapor permeable) since I also plan on using vinyl plank on the inside. This would create a sandwich of impermeable surfaces that if moisture ever got in (leak, spill, murphy's law), would not be able to dry out and cause rot.
After seeing the other thread on here about spray foaming, I think I'm going to go with Roxul boards underneath. Expensive, yes...
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2024 04:44pm
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I'm doing vinyl plank flooring too. My subfloor is painted with behr deck-over.
I wouldnt worry about things trapping water if you have a leak or spill. Plywood isnt very permiable to begin with so anything that got under the vinyl plank would prob have been there for a while so if it soaked into the sub floor it would all have to come out. Wet rockwool would also need to be removed.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 20 Dec 2024 06:04pm
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We have the faux wood plank flooring at home. The snap together is pretty tight, short a 'flooding' incident (broken pipe, etc) with standing water I can't imagine enough of any normal spill getting through.
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2024 06:57am
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N Minnesota. I spray foamed mine from underneath in September this year. Used the big froth pak. Was surprisingly fairly easy. Ended up with about 1” or so on the whole thing and it made a tremendous difference in the colder fall months- worth the $$$ IMO Theres a thread on it somewhere.
I havent been there since it’s been winter to see how much it makes a difference in the real cold but We now have navigable ice now so I will be up there again soon.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2024 08:47am - Edited by: paulz
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I’m almost convinced to do it. I was laying on the floor playing with the dog, cold! Is it one of these from Home Depot?
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2024 01:49pm
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paulz
Yeah. But they make a 600 vs the 200 (refers to the board feet of coverage)That’s your best value.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2024 05:33pm - Edited by: paulz
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I see the Froth Pak 620s. So for a thousand bucks you get a couple bottles of the propellant they show? And a gun of some sort? How long is the wand? My joist go across the narrow sides, 12’. Am I still going to be on my back under there?
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Grizzlyman
Member
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2024 07:34pm
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No. Just bigger tanks. Gun and several nozzles. Yes you’re on your back. Not really a wand. More of a gun.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 22 Dec 2024 07:53pm
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@paulz If you do pull the trigger, please post photos. I would love to see someone DIY and how it works out.
I don't need it at my cabin, but I'm considering it for rim joist pockets in my house.
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Cal89
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2024 12:10am
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I might DIY as well, either XPS glued from underneath or closed cell foam.
I see most of you choosing vinyl for the floor. I get it it's the least headache/most durable option and my wife is suggesting it as well but so far I can't wrap my head around it.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2024 07:42am
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Useing foam board and sealing up the edges with caned foam will give you just about the same product as spray foam. It will take longer but it also dosnt have to be done all at once. You can also put up foam board when it to cold to use canned foam.
If you do this I suggest getting the pro gun. Way easier to control and you can close the gun/can for 30days and come back to a working can.
I did my floor and 4in foam along with my whole 20x24 gambrel roof. I'm about 32 large foam cans into this and about 60 4'x4'x4" sheets of poly iso. I would do it again how ever I would change the way some framing meets so it's easier to do.
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2024 08:02am - Edited by: paulz
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Cal89, Hmm, interesting. I might have the option of using that XPS stuff on TOP of my plywood, which is now covered with some inch thick particle board shelving squares. Might even be room to put those back on top, or some other thinner flooring.
Not that big a deal for me, only a couple freezing days here a year, plenty of firewood!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2024 09:17am
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With room topside that is where Id be working
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2024 10:43am
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I would do almost anything to avoid crawling under my cabin insulating. In fact I did; I paid my nephew to install the batts and to fasten the 3/8" plywood under the joists. And that was with a minimum 19 inches between the ground and the joists.
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Cal89
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2024 03:04pm
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Plenty of room to work with, I would do the work on top if I had the room. Will most likely do it myself from under the cabin with the foam board and canned foam. Thanks for the tips!
I'm thinking 2 or 3 inch. Unless I find some crazy deal on FB Marketplace. The place is great btw, you can find a lot of brand new stuff in the Boston area for pennies on the dollar.
I will clean the underside of the cabin this coming summer. I've done a bit already and it's pretty nasty. A combination of fallen old fiberglass insulation + leaves.
I'm pretty sure I will leave 1/4 or less of the 400sq2 uninsulated, due to the fact I won t be able to crawl under there. I don't imagine this to be too big of problem?
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Cal89
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2024 03:11pm
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I wish I knew that you can put foam board before insulation on walls. I would've done it as well. Even though for my cabin it's a bit of an overkill.
My stove is on a small side but after 3-4 hours the temps inside is 21C and If I keep firing it I will blow us out of the cabin. This is right now, with the floor and front and back uninsulated and cabin not air sealed.
I imagine the floor insulation everything else insulated and closed we'll be in much better shape.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 23 Dec 2024 04:03pm
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Wear mask and goggles underneath
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2024 08:34am
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If you pull up the Foam Pak kits there are a couple quick videos on application tricks, what to wear…
For me, I’ve ordered a roll of the 1/8” insulation to put on top of my floor. Enough to double it up if there’s room. Will it do any good? Don’t know, but easy enough to put down in sections and leave it. Nothing but a few bucks and time wasted. Very used to that.
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Cal89
Member
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2024 12:04pm
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Quoting: paulz For me, I’ve ordered a roll of the 1/8” insulation to put on top of my floor.
Hi Paulz, which type of 1/8 insulation you mean? I might do this too
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2024 12:37pm
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Im(humble)o, it may be an easy expedient but wont replace real insulation.
I think it might be physics or thermodynamics or ?
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paulz
Member
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2024 12:44pm - Edited by: paulz
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Just went to Amazon and put in Roll Insulation. 1000 results, just ignorantly picked one. If it doesn’t do anything I may man up and get under there. Or not… supposed to be like 70 degrees out before spraying. I have ‘real’ insulation in the walls and when I touch it near the floor it feels about the same. I’m at latitude 38 sea level. No one freezing around here.
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ICC
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# Posted: 24 Dec 2024 01:45pm
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FYI, Smartshield is a reflective barrier type of insulation. It insulates by reflecting heat back when radiant heat energy strikes it. The thin foam layer is mainly a carrier for the reflective film. 1.5mm of foam by itself will not make any discernable difference unless it happens to seal against air infiltration. The foil surface is supposed to face the warm side and have an air space.
The catch is that in order for the reflective surface to be effective at reflecting radiant heat energy there needs to be an air space at the reflective surface. That is because radiant energy moves through air. When radiant heat energy hits a solid surface it heats the solid object. The heat then transfers by conduction. The foil layer will not stop conduction. The foam can slow heat transfer; that is why several inches of closed cell foam like XPS works so well. However, without an air space in front of the foil, radiant energy will not be reflected.
In short, unless the material stops drafts you may not feel any improvement.
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