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spencerin
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2024 18:44
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Can anyone explain why toilet drains/piping are connected at floor level with a wax seal, vs. manufacturing it with the drain extending through the floor, all as one piece/no seams, and then making the connection below the floor?
I feel like the current configuration is a major design flaw for leaks, which could seriously damage floors. Not that I've known a lot of toilets to leak at the wax seal, but it does happen, and I feel that could be eliminated altogether.....
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ICC
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2024 21:27
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Because people change flooring in bathrooms and the toilet needs to be removed and replaced. Many floors have no access from below so the connection between toilet and waste piping needs to require no actual hands on work. (Most homes in the southwest are on slabs, very few have basements
Installed correctly wax is superb. Correct installation means it has to be set inplace once, no need to remove and reset. There are waxless seals that use rubber components that are good if it is known the toilet may need to be R&R soon. Also they are forgiving so maybe better suited to DIY. More $ though. And rubber may deteriorate eventually, but do seem well made. For a plumber doing lots of toilets wax makes a better bottom line and saves the customer money. I happen to dislike wax as when working a renovation we would often do the toilet R&R ourselves to save the cost of bringing in s plumber. Though I did my own home with wax.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 12 Oct 2024 23:04
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I have a rubber replacement here ready to go the next time I pull the stool. It has a 'neck' that goes down Into the sewer pipe instead of just depending on the wax ring. Seems to make sense to me.....
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spencerin
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2024 02:22
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I was thinking about the fact that people want/need to replace toilets. But, I was also thinking there could be a way to design what I was suggesting that could friction fit into the waste pipe below floor level.....
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2024 02:47
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It may be that it isn't fitting into a waste pipe below floor level as fitting into variable height waste pipes and being watertight enough.
The waste piping was standardized long ago so that is what the market products are made to fit.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2024 03:45 - Edited by: ICC
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In a perfect world the waste pipe flange would be installed at the perfect height for the toilet. But rough-in plumbing often has imperfections. If a tile layer uses more thinset than usual the floor gets thicker. And other errors occur. The wax seal works well. Cheap. Simple.
And if a redesign of the connection meant the toilet bowl drain connection needed to be changed you would have a revolution. Old style and new style toilets? Old style and new style waste pipe fittings? Adapters to go from one to the other? Maybe better off to not try to fix something that is not really broken.
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FishHog
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2024 11:28 - Edited by: FishHog
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Quoting: spencerin friction fit into the waste pipe below floor level
Friction fit isn't good enough when your talking sewer gases.
I agree with ICC, no need to fix what isn't broken
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Desim
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2024 14:05
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I think the reason many people dislike wax rings are they are nasty seeming, especially after years of use. Which is the very reason they are so good! Wax rings last at least 20 years, some say indefinitely. As a small time landlord and DIY'er I can tell you that the most common reason (the only reason in my experience) they fail is not the fault of the wax ring but the toilet/floor connection failed.
I do use the type with the horn built into them, seems like good insurance?
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Brettny
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2024 19:49
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I recently pulled a 14yr old toilet because I suspected a air leak. Well the wax ring was totally fine. I replaced it with a silicone version of a wax ring. Idk how one would have a toilet leak at the wax ring. More than likely it's due to spills or sweating toilet tank that made the floor rot.
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 13 Oct 2024 22:28 - Edited by: spencerin
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Take the trap out of the toilet and put it into the waste pipe. And in the case of a slab, it's not much different than what's already going on. That way if the friction fit ever becomes air permeable, the trap downstream is already doing its job.
Wax rings do fail, and toilets can work their way loose, impacting the effectiveness of otherwise effective wax rings. I feel like if the connection to the waste pipe and the mounting of the toilet were decoupled in this way, you could also design more robust mounting mechanisms, too.
If I were a product engineer, with enough spare time, this would be something to investigate further, and possibly patent (if not already done so).....
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2024 11:49
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I siliconed down my toilet to the floor. I dont believe the pipe is even attached to the floor.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 14 Oct 2024 21:53
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Quoting: spencerin I feel like if the connection to the waste pipe and the mounting of the toilet were decoupled in this way, you could also design more robust mounting mechanisms, too.
Right. No doubt the toilet - pipe connection could be improved. What I see as a major impediment to change is the millions of existing toilets that are already in use. If a new connection design is not backwards convertible or easy to change with minimum cost to the consumer there will be tremendous resistance to change.
How would the need to change a toilet for a new one be handled if the connections were not interchangable?
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