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Cedar Fever
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2023 08:35pm
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I dont know a thing about sealing up doors, and i'm trying to learn.
My cabin doors are leaking. The thresholds broke in a matter of weeks (thanks Lowes). They broke so fast that I actually thought they could not be important.
Below are pictures of the door, some of the leak, and the nice new one I bought.
1. How do I get the old threshold out?
2. How do I install this properly so its all nice and waterproof?
3. The floor has an exterior plywood edge because it is currently not covered by trim. This is bad right?
Thanks in advance,
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2023 10:30pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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A storm/screen door would help to better shed water. (Inward opening doors have weatherstripping joints in the corners where water can leak through.)
A failed threshold on a new door might be an indicator of poor support. Say 200 lbs weight on a foot landing on an unsupported overhang (drip edge) can put a lot of levered force on the inside edge.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2023 11:30pm
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Yep. The outside doesn't look like it has anything under it for support. Even if the threshold was caulked underneath, I would think it gave out due to the constant rocking from stepping on it.
I would think you have to remove/re install/reenforce the threshold/door. Don't believe you can slip the threshold out.
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Cedar Fever
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2023 11:31pm
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Thank you for the suggestion, I will check out storm doors. This place is on skids so there is some flex. But I have seen homes in worse shape.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2023 11:43pm
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You could probably put a filler strip underneath. The threshold.
I have a shop on skids. A couple times I got a small leak on the lower part of the threshold under the door knob when we had heavy rain hitting that side. A screen door would definitely help.
Ya also gotta keep in mind. No weather stripping is perfect. All the water that hits the door is gonna run down hill. Water can be a pita.
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Cedar Fever
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# Posted: 28 Jan 2023 11:52pm
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It’s on skids and 2x6 joists. There is support, but it’s not concrete foundation level support. I have also added more skids, there is 5 on here now.
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darz5150
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2023 12:06am
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Maybe take a look at the reveal/gap around the door. That will tell you if there is any settling on the outer rim, and which way it is going.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2023 12:10am
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I dont think its anything Lowes, I see no support under the threshold, so it will flex till it breaks. How about metal flashing under it to water doesnt hos the lower wall plate. Flash that, shore up under the threshold, flash it, slop it outward slightly. Leave a cab between the decking and the wall, so if any water does get under there, it runs down and out vs under and into the cabin. Maybe flash the entire area where siding ends, remove deck board and slide in soem galvanized flashing inder siding then nail siding to secure, keep water from deck surface from migrating under wall plate, plus leave a small gap too.
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Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2023 09:23am
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Lots of great advice here. Including the fact that because a srore sold it. It broke must be that dang box store thing fault. Not me not the installed not the structure. Gotta be big box store. They are all the same products in other stores folks.
A couple great suggestions here. The weather strip should have several different sealing strips. Are all of them ripped ?
Good luck n have fun
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Cedar Fever
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2023 09:39am
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Yes this is all good advice and gives me some direction. I am looking at pulling the door off, replacing the transition, adding support, flashing, a storm door and some better trim and caulk.
Is there any preferred way to support this transition? Best I can think of so far is to good fasteners and bolt on some treated 2x4 under it.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2023 02:34pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Imo, that simple threshold 'cap' failed because of flex in the doorway decking. Is there a rim joist running beneath that stretch of doorway? How about the floor joists, do they end out that wall or perpendicular to it? If the joists run to that wall is the doorway between two joists?
All that to say, if you can get under there you could box it up to better support the doorway (And a treated 2x4 isnt gonna be enough) If not, maybe you can get some good block under that to support the rim joist.
Also, the threshold needs to pitch outward and be well sealed, even flashed then sealed beneath. And a storm door will be invaluable. Think about it this way, all the stuff to keep water out has to be a shingle effect, each succeeding piece above needs to overlap the piece below and the bottom has to pitch outward.
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Cedar Fever
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2023 06:36pm
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Sounds like I should get under there and maybe sister some joists. There is flex when I step on the edge of the threshold just because there is no support and it’s not robust at all. My back door on my house also has major flex and that threshold has lasted 13 years. I do think part of the solution here is a new threshold, one that is not made of super thin materials. The new one has a built in angle to push water out. Now I am looking at door flashing that goes around the entire threshold.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2023 07:36pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Ive always thought those were intended to go over the top of a real wood threshold, not replace one.
You may want to look at a 'construction book' for door stuff.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 29 Jan 2023 07:36pm
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I didnt read every reply but as a home depot door owner I can tell you that big box store doors are complete junk. My lower door wiper ripped about 1yr after owning it. At year 2 I realized that my foam filled fiberglass door had a 1/4in bow away from the lock. I spent the next 8 yrs trying to fix and patch these issues. This year I replaced it with a door from a local store.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2023 06:49am
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Quoting: Cedar Fever es this is all good advice and gives me some direction. I am looking at pulling the door off, replacing the transition, adding support, flashing, a storm door and some better trim and caulk. Is there any preferred way to support this transition? Best I can think of so far is to good fasteners and bolt on some treated 2x4 under it.
Putting a storm door on to stop leaks is not fixing the problem.
Typicaly a threshold is wider than s 2x4 so unless you put that on vertically it's not going to help. It does look like its hanging out to far and not supported. I always put the door on a section of 5/4 deck board so things are supported properly. Also you shouldnt be seeing your sub floor from the outside.
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Cedar Fever
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2023 07:47am
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Quoting: Brettny It does look like its hanging out to far and not supported.
The door is flush with the wall so its supported for about 3.5" and the rest is floating. The floor is solid for what it is, so I am looking for ways to get more support for the threshold. Wonder if I can pull the door into the cabin another inch.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2023 08:12am
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It's really hard to tell how its flashed and supported in your pics.
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Cedar Fever
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2023 09:36am
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Yea there is no flashing.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2023 01:52pm
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Well that's prob not helping the leaks. I would pull the door and install it different along with flashing it.
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ICC
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2023 09:57pm - Edited by: ICC
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If one wants to have this door be water resistant as it could be it is my opinion that it needs to be removed, door jamb frame and all and the edge of the floor opening reinforced to be able to support the metal threshold. If the threshold has flexed enough to be damaged or to have damaged the factory fit between the metal bottom plate and the wood door frame it may be best for weather resistance to purchase a new prehung door. Then flash the frame to the structure properly with the flexible self-adhesive roll flashing, such as those made by Grace. Work from the bottom upwards so any water that does get to the flashing layer has to roll down over the seam joint and cannot seep into the overlap. Install a flashing drip strip over the top. . Of course, the siding material is in the way now so all that may be seen as impractical.
In that case install a solid support under that metal threshold lip. It should not flex at all. A very heavy bead or two of sealant should have been used between the threshold and the subfloor and framing. That is in the instructions. See if sufficient can be pushed in from the outside before and while adding the support to the threshold.
There is nothing inherently wrong with a prehung door sold at any big box store. Usually problems arise when instructions are not followed to the letter.
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Cedar Fever
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# Posted: 30 Jan 2023 11:45pm
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Thank you for the advice. It will be getting a complete rebuild with flashing, a door sill pan, and new trim. If I can find a good solid pre hung door I might replace the entire thing. It’s a little messed up and as we can see it’s damaged from being improperly installed.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 31 Jan 2023 05:55am
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Flexible flashing tape is very nice stuff to work with. Also if any time this is the time to spend $10 per tube of cawlk not $2.
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KinAlberta
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# Posted: 2 Feb 2023 06:45pm - Edited by: KinAlberta
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Good article here. Note the comments about sill pan flashing.
Exterior Door Inspection: Will These Doors leak? A Closer Look at Hinges, Thresholds and Sweeps.
https://www.getscribeware.com/2013/05/exterior-door-inspection-will-these-doors-leak- a-closer-look-at-hinges-thresholds-and-sweeps/
Another good one:
Excerpt:
Door Inspection: How to Stop Leaks and Check Condition - Feldco Factory Direct“ Door sweeps are a little difficult to inspect because they’re not very visible. … …you need to see if your exterior door even has a sweep. Not having a sweep can definitely cause air and water leaks. While inspecting the sweep, look for… https://www.4feldco.com/articles/door-inspection-stop-leaks/
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