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Small Cabin Forum / Cabin Construction / Finishing top of stair system

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# Posted: 16 May 2022 09:29am - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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Hi all. Looking for ideas. I built a set of stairs up the cliff face of my lake place. I started with a landing/deck in the middle. I hung stairs down off the landing to a flat piece of bedrock; and supported my stairs going up using the level surface of the landing.

However- Iâ€™m trying to figure out the best way to terminate the stairs and support them at the top. The topography is such itâ€™s all rock underneath and I bashed rocks with a hammer and cut around a lot of rocks already just to get it as low as it is to the ground.

Hereâ€™s where the stairs are now. I do not intend for them to be this high at the end when finishedâ€¦this is just the portion I have yet to cut as I contemplate how to terminate them.

Plan right now is to build a boardwalk directly on the ground that is through bolted to the staircase. This will serve as an anchor with the weight of the boardwalk essentially cantilevering the stairs to hold them in place. Then Iâ€™ll just cut off the top of the stringers that are sticking out now. That along with additional supports up the staircase wherever needed should keep it solid. tâ€™s very solid right now even as is since much of the stringer is directly supported by the rocks I cut around and is essentially wedged in the rocks.

The green is my plan. Hopefully this is enough to get the point across.

Any feedback is appreciated!

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Plan

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BRADISH
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# Posted: 16 May 2022 11:11am
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Slightly off topic, but do you plan you place any cleats under the stair treads? I would highly recommend it, otherwise you are just counting on the shear value of the nails/screws you've used.

In regards to your landing, I don't know anything I would do differently than what you've proposed. I suppose I would try to get an 'anchor' of sorts on the far side of the landing, but I assume that layer of dirt is probably shallow until you hit rock again.

The one thing I would do at a minimum is try to brace the stair side of the landing directly to the rock. I would think this will extend the life of the joint where the stairs and landing meet.

Otherwise it looks great! You've really managed to sneak them in there, great job on working with that tough terrain!

Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 16 May 2022 12:00pm - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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BRADISH
Thanks!!

I thought about cleatsâ€¦ or brackets but instead Iâ€™m using four (2 each side) 5-6â€ spax to fasten the treadsâ€¦ which are supposedly stronger than lags even..so I dont think thereâ€™s any feasible load possible that could shear that but weâ€™ll see how it holds up over time. I can always go back and add them.

As far as an anchor on the landing- you are correct. Itâ€™s rock. If you figure a 12 ft boardwalk itâ€™s basically a cantilever I could pour cement pad to fasten to on the far end but I think that might be overkill considering the leverage the cantilever hasâ€¦and maybe more work than necessary. I think Iâ€™ll plan on just putting it down and see how the stairs go.

I do have the stairs fastened at the bottom with a cleat to make sure it never slides forward. I also thought about joist hangers but reversed to hold the stairs in place on the deck.

Agree that the boardwalk should be on rock. I will have to level it side to side so I will put one side directly on rock and the other on a small post which is on rock.

One other photo- this is the plan drawn out

Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 16 May 2022 12:06pm
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Iâ€™ll also note that my stairs donâ€™t matchâ€¦ as one is a standard â€œstringerâ€ style for lack of a better word with treads on top and the other has treads built in.

The main reason for this is because when I built the upper I had to cut around so much rock in a few places that there would have been very little wood left by the time I cut the steps in and there would be no structural integrity left.

Alternatively, the lower I only had room for 18â€ and that means I would have had only 15â€ treads if I would have built treads inside the staircase. So instead I cut typical stringers and hung the treads 2â€ each side to make a comfortable wide enough stairs.

BRADISH
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# Posted: 16 May 2022 01:41pm
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Quoting: Grizzlyman

I thought about cleatsâ€¦ or brackets but instead Iâ€™m using four (2 each side) 5-6â€ spax to fasten the treadsâ€¦ which are supposedly stronger than lags even..so I dont think thereâ€™s any feasible load possible that could shear that but weâ€™ll see how it holds up over time. I can always go back and add them.

IMO I have no doubts in the integrity of the SPAX screws as I know they are quite strong. With them in mind, I think the weak point will become the tread material itself. Given that ~80% of your walking load is in the outer half of the tread, I think you could see some deterioration of the tread itself on that outer edge as it flexes downwards with foot traffic. Obviously it depends on the amount and weight of foot traffic over time before you'd see any effects. I just know I won't build any 'hanging' steps without cleats anymore.

I think your standard stringer run will be fine since the tread is vertically supported.

NorthRick
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# Posted: 17 May 2022 04:16pm
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I'd put 2x4 posts right where the steps and boardwalk meet. It wouldn't take long to do and will prevent that joint from flexing and possibly failing over time.

Grizzlyman
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# Posted: 17 May 2022 04:37pm
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Quoting: NorthRick

I'd put 2x4 posts right where the steps and boardwalk meet. It wouldn't take long to do and will prevent that joint from flexing and possibly failing over time.

Great point. Will certainly do!

Aklogcabin
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# Posted: 18 May 2022 10:10am
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That looks real nice man

BRADISH
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# Posted: 18 May 2022 05:04pm
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Quoting: NorthRick

I'd put 2x4 posts right where the steps and boardwalk meet. It wouldn't take long to do and will prevent that joint from flexing and possibly failing over time.

This is what I was attempting to drive at in my post.

Grizzlyman
Member

# Posted: 23 May 2022 05:52pm - Edited by: Grizzlyman
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Itâ€™s done!

Did just as I illustrated. Supported the connection with posts and Through-bolted boardwalk to stairs. I also was able to anchor the board walk as well at the far end away from the stairs. I did this by drilling a 1/2 hole through the boardwalk frame and pounding about 3â€™ of rebar through the boardwalk down into the soil and ultimately into in the crevices in the subterranean rock.

Iâ€™m not real happy that the boardwalk continues â€œstraightâ€ on the same path as the stairs. Due to the completely unlevel nature of the topography it runs diagonally across the main trail instead of head on. I think I can fill in the main trail with dirt and wood chips to build it up so itâ€™s more head-on but that is really more of a â€œfinishing touchâ€.

I am also not thrilled with the slope of the boardwalk itself. I stupidly beveled the top side instead of the bottomâ€¦.meaning rather than having a straight slope it slopes up and then is level. Itâ€™s ok- but it looks kind of humpbacked to me.

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gcrank1
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# Posted: 23 May 2022 06:13pm
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Dont fret it, it is supposed to be 'country rustic'!