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troodon
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# Posted: 25 Apr 2022 11:01pm
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Our newly-bought cabin has two pairs of outdoor bibs. I discovered this past week that each pair is composed of a hot and cold bib. We're going to re-plumb the place soon with PEX, and I'm wondering if there is any good reason to keep external hot water bibs? It seems like a strange choice to have them, but I want to make sure there's not some sort of cabin wisdom behind it all before I remove them.
The hot and cold drain lines just empty out below the house, in the crawlspace, as does the water heater drain. This seems odd to me, with my limited knowledge. We will drain the lines each time we leave. Should those drain lines not be routed outside the foundation, on a downhill side? Is there a standard practice for where to direct such drain lines?
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mj1angier
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2022 08:42am
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I guess it depends on your life style...
For me I could see using it for many things: washing dog after a roll in something or skunk fight, clean up after brewing or cleaning chickens, cleaning SXS...
I don't think its a bad thing to have
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2022 10:27am
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Does the cabin have an indoor shower?
Even if it does it can be nice to have hot water on demand outside. More than once have I wished I could hose off outside with hot pressured water. As is I keep a solar shower bag out in the summer for a rinse off.
For draining lines remember there isnt a lot of volume in pipes though there is in a water heater. If you are draining the water heater you need to get that volume away from the cabin via hose. Hopefully all those lines to the taps will have a downgrade run, that will make it easy.
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troodon
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2022 07:16pm
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Thank you for the replies. It does have a shower inside.
So it sounds like draining the pipes under the cabin is fine, but the water heater drain needs to be out of there.
We're redoing the plumbing in the whole place. Meeting the plumber there Friday. In the crawlspace there's some pex going up, then back down, then up again, etc. But mostly it's copper -- on the ground, or swinging on broken metal brackets, horrible soldering, etc. It'll be Pex-A/upunor.
As for the outdoor hot bibs, I don't see a reason to have them so far.
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Tim_Ohio
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2022 07:27pm
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I recently bought a house that we are replacing the galvanized piping. In the garage, which is under ground on three sides, as part of the basement, there was a hot and cold faucet. I scratched my head and gave it a thought before having a martini happy hour and realized because of the garage floor drain , bathing our dog there would be better than in a bathroom in the house. So, I had it replaced with the new PEX, connecting it into a janitorial faucet. I’ll be able to fill a bucket, wash the dog or connect with a power washer. Hot water will be a nice option, I guess. And, if I need a temporary shower, during some possible renovation, it will be easy to set up.
Tim
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Fanman
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2022 09:47pm
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I put hot and cold bibs at the low point of the plumbing, so I can easily drain both sides. Mainly I just use the cold one for the hose, but I have a wye connector so I can mix them if I want to... as I did for a temporary outdoor shower one season while redoing the inside shower.
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troodon
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# Posted: 26 Apr 2022 10:16pm
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Hmm, those are interesting ideas. I suppose when we re-plumb, we can leave the hot outdoor lines, and just connect them upstream to the new PEX. There wouldn't be any harm in that. If there are any problems in the future, I guess I could just disconnect them?
And it has me thinking, maybe those bibs are there partly for drainage purposes. They could very well represent the low points of the two different plumbing sections of the cabin, since they're located directly downhill of those two plumbed sections. There is a separate drain line, but that empties directly underneath the house. Is this a plausible plumbing logic?
I usually open the faucets and drain the hose bibs first, before I open the drain line (the one that empties under the house). How much water could be left in the system after those hose bibs stop emptying water? Is that drain line under the house redundant, or maybe there to serve another purpose? That's what I'm wondering now.
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Tim_Ohio
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2022 06:31am
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Don’t forget to drain the traps, if you have them. They will freeze, if that’s what you trying to avoid by draining the lines.
Tim
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Tim_Ohio
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2022 07:16am
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Oh, and if you are draining all of the lines for freezing weather, most will use an air compressor to blow out as much as possible. You can make an adapter for one of your bibs to connect an air compressor. However, if they are all pitched well or are vertical, you will have drained them pretty well. You will want to leave that main drain valve cracked open at the lowest point to allow any additional water to work it's way out. Maybe stuff some stainless steel gauze, such as part of a sink scouring pad in any openings to keep wildlife out.
I dunno, every situation is different
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troodon
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2022 09:09am
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Do you think it's possible the hot and cold outdoor bibs were installed in order to drain the system? One pair is on the downhill wall of the bathroom addition, which juts out from the main structure, and one pair is on the downhill wall of the main structure.
For freezes, I've been doing what the former owner suggested, and what others in the area do (though people have different approaches). I pour some RV antifreeze in the traps, toilets, and tanks. I've heard some people up there blow air, or siphon water from toilet tanks and bowls, in addition to the antifreeze. One friend has been there 35 years, and he just does a little antifreeze pour (after draining lines and flushing toilets). He says he's never had a problem.
I was just now working on my arrival/departure routine document. It's helpful for developing an understanding of the plumbing layout, though I'm not really there yet.
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Tim_Ohio
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2022 09:17am
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I believe it would be the best method to drain everything as well as possible, then refill with the antifreeze. This makes sense to avoid diluting the antifreeze too much. You might be onto something
with the outdoor bibs. They may have opened them and left them open through winter weather. I guess you will need to investigate how they are plumbed to know if that was the purpose.
If you have contact info for the previous owner, I'd think that asking about it would really shed light on what you are dealing with.
Tim
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2022 10:08am
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If you can access the piping to the bibs you can maybe set a level on to check for pitch. Once you have them figured you might note that with a magic marker on the joist, or whatever obvious, down there for future reference.
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troodon
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# Posted: 27 Apr 2022 02:28pm - Edited by: troodon
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Thanks Tim (I'm from Geauga county originally). I'm in regular contact with the previous owner. But he's 93, and never really used the cabin much before basically leaving it to the elements. They bought it in '96, and stopped using it in '08. Their use was very intermittent. He really is a pleasure to talk to, but I'm basically on my own in terms of figuring stuff out. As I've found, that also applies to the important question: Where's the septic tank?! 
I will check out the pitch on the copper pipe, gcrank1. The pex, you can see in the pic below, is like a roller coaster. That pex goes to the cold bib in front of the cabin. The copper pipe goes to the hot bib. The pipe insulation has fallen off the copper pipe, I think (I took the pictures a while ago...). The large galvanized pipe leads underground and, as far as I can figure, is either 1) an old cesspool drain line, from before they put in septic about 16 years ago, or 2) a conduit to a monstrous 8-ft diameter satellite dish out front.
I go up again tomorrow, and one thing I want to do is a crawlspace survey and photo session. It was too wet and cold last week.
I love the labeling idea, too.
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