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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2021 09:14am
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Yeah you're on the right track.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 2 Nov 2021 09:41am
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Any specifics on how/where the panel is installed in the wall....X" from the floor...X" from a corner...type of fasteners or how it's attached to the stud(s) or anything like that?
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 08:11am
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More questions that come to mind. Are there specifics on how and where wires are chased through the walls and ceilings to get to outlets, switches, lights? X distance off the floor, X distance back from the face of the stud, etc., etc.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 08:46am
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Yes.
Not sure on the requirements for panels...I do believe you need a certain amount of access in front (like 30" width, 30" deep?) Cant hide it behind a water heater for example.
1 1/4" required between face of stud and wire hole. If you don't have that, need to put metal guards on stud face to keep drywall screws from going into wire.
There's limits on wires per hole, staple/clamp requirements, etc.
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Nobadays
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 08:57am
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This might help...
CODES BY ROOM
"Breaker panel must be at least 4 feet off the ground, but no higher than 6 feet. The panel door must be able to open at least 90 degrees. Working space around the breaker panel must be at least 30 inches wide and 72 inches from the ground up."
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 09:21am
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It might seem like overkill, but our code required an outlet every 6 ft of wall space to prevent the use of extension cords. I'm not sure if it has changed.
Any wet areas will require a GFCI. I'm not sure if you have to have both a GFCI breaker and a GFCI outlet or just the outlet in the wet area. I know that if the GFCI outlet is in a circuit, it covers the whole circuit, not just the outlet.
I didn't use them, but some say code requires arc fault breakers now, as well. They are more expensive. Here is an example:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-D-Homeline-20-Amp-Single-Pole-AFCI-Circuit-Breaker -HOM120AFIC/100128763?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&pla&mtc=Shopping-B-F_Brand-G-Mu lti-NA-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Catchall_PLA&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_Brand-G-Multi-NA-Mult i-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-Catchall_PLA-71700000014585962-58700001236285396-9270006714441247 6&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImLXAmKT88wIVqW1vBB1aaQGfEAYYBCABEgJOg_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Tim_Ohio
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 09:50am
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I thought receptacles were every 12 feet so that a 6 foot cord would reach. At least that's what my electrician did in WI last year.
Yes, arc fault breakers are required by many codes.
in WI:
Question # 21
Is AFCI protection required in newly constructed Dwelling Units in Wisconsin?
Answer # 21 NEC 210.12 (A)
NEC 210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. (A) Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single
phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family
rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation
rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit
interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
NEC 210.12(A) contains a non-exclusive list of rooms and similar areas. Branch-Circuits
supplying such rooms or similar areas require AFCI protection. A laundry room that is “finishedâ€
is similar to a hallway or closet and requires AFCI protection. AFCI protection is required for all
120-volt, single phase, 15-and 20 Ampere branch circuits supplying outlets. (See definition of
outlets in Article 100). NEC 210.12(A) does not apply to unfinished portions of basements. "
https://dsps.wi.gov/Documents/Programs/ElectricalLighting/FAQ2018WinterUpdateResident ial.pdf
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 10:08am
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Yes, you are correct. From any point horizontally, an outlet must be within 6 ft. Not that the outlets have to be 6 ft apart. It's that you have to be within six feet.
You can install more, just not less. Always assure you are within 6 ft of any outlet from any location along the wall.
Sorry about the wording.
Tim, Ohio
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 12:54pm
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Awesome help..i'll have to read and digest it all.
I have alot of windows...any rules about outlets being below windows? Most of the rough openings for my windows are 18" off the floor.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 01:03pm
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I don't think there's any issue there. You may just have to sneak the outlet below window trim, but above baseboard.
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Tim_Ohio
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 01:16pm
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As long as you build sill pans into the sill framing with your flashing, and that sill framing is slightly pitched to the outside of the structure, you should not have any water leaking into the cavity below and causing a short in a box. This has to be done before you install your windows.
Hey Nate, what's the minimum/max height for wall outlets from the sub-floor up? I just measured the ones in our house and went with that. I don't remember what it was.
Tim_Ohio
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Shadyacres
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 02:03pm
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IF you have an electrical supply house where you will buy your materials, they usually will help you with what is needed for code. In PA I used what they call Mobile home wire to run to my pole shed.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 02:31pm
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Quoting: Tim_Ohio what's the minimum/max height for wall outlets from the sub-floor up?
12 or 16" from floor to center of box is what i've read so far.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 02:44pm
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Yeah, IIRC my electrician set the top of the box at 18". I had blocking at about 12", so that complicated things a tad. I wanted all receptacles and wires above that....then the blocking becomes another rodent barrier.
https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/180489/what-range-of-heights-are-allowed-for- wall-receptacles
Sounds like there's no NEC minimum, just a max of 5 1/2 feet up if you want it to count for your minimum number of wall recepts. Certain areas (CA, etc) require between 15" and 48" for ADA accessibility.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 3 Nov 2021 09:43pm - Edited by: ICC
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A handy document
Receptacle height above finished floor.... most electricians will use 18" from top of outlet box to finished floor level in part because that is the minimum height in basements. NEC actually states it as 15" from box lower edge to finished floor level.
Plus that 15/18" also complies with the ADA (american disabilities act) minimum requirements making it easier to keep track of what you are doing and where.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 10:52am
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Planning to head up this weekend and get this wire run before the ground freezes to much. I'm pretty clear on what needs to happen between the current power pole i built and the cabin. However, i have some more questions once at the cabin.
1. I'm leaning more and more towards putting the panel on the bedroom wall that the door is on. Can i trench the wire to the cabin, sweep up and out of the ground in conduit and then run conduit on the bottom of my floor joists (remember cabin is elevated) for about 10' and then go up and into that interior wall?
2. Where the wire coming from my power pole exits the ground and goes up to the cabin, does it need to stay inside conduit all the way to the panel in the wall, or just until it enters the wall cavity?
3. How do i know what gauge stranded bare copper wire i need to go from my panel to the ground rods?
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 12:49pm
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Called 2 local hardware stores that rent trenchers and neither are renting them anymore this year. So sounds like i'll be hand digging that wire if it's even possible.
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 01:14pm
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Quoting: WILL1E sounds like i'll be hand digging that wire if it's even possible.
I have temperature dataloggers going by my place.
As of the 23rd, the soil at 6" depth was 37 degrees. So, not frozen yet!
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 01:34pm
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Fingers crossed...plus maybe the midweek warmup and rain will be in my favor and keep things moist until Saturday.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 01:41pm
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Hard to believe they wont rent a trencher with the ground not frozen yet. Did you talk to 'the boss'?
From my own experience you Do Not want to be digging that by hand!
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Nate R
Member
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 01:43pm - Edited by: Nate R
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If the past couple years are any indication, soil won't freeze more than a couple inches for a while yet.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 02:43pm
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I own a gas auger so i was thinking it might be easiest to drill those down my line as close as possible and then all i have to do is break out bridge between each hole. Running the auger should be easier than conventional digging it all.
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 29 Nov 2021 03:42pm
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Quoting: WILL1E 1. I'm leaning more and more towards putting the panel on the bedroom wall that the door is on. Can i trench the wire to the cabin, sweep up and out of the ground in conduit and then run conduit on the bottom of my floor joists (remember cabin is elevated) for about 10' and then go up and into that interior wall? 2. Where the wire coming from my power pole exits the ground and goes up to the cabin, does it need to stay inside conduit all the way to the panel in the wall, or just until it enters the wall cavity? 3. How do i know what gauge stranded bare copper wire i need to go from my panel to the ground rods?
4. What size ground rod do i need?
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old243
Member
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# Posted: 30 Nov 2021 11:39pm
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If your kitchen area is close to where your power , comes from your outside panel location, or even if it is a bit further away. I would locate your new panel , there on an outside wall. The most of your main power draw will be in the kitchen. This will shorten the runs to outlets on kitchen cabinets, electric stove possibly water heater. This may not be possible , depending on kitchen location. I was an electrician, in my former life, have laid out and wired lots of houses. I really like running your underground cable in solid 4 inch drainage pipe rather than direct buried, cover pipe with 6 inches of sand if possible, less chance if a rock touching the cable and causing a fault. Bring pipe up above grade at each end, Extend your service conduit down well below grade and seal duct to keep crap out. If this is not acceptable to inspector , you will just have to bury it direct. Good luck old243
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2021 08:37pm - Edited by: WILL1E
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Well I’ve officially concluded today that LB type conduit fittings are the red headed step children of the electrical world. Dang those things are a PITA with heavy service wire!
Well at least I was able to get the cable ran and ground rods and wire in today. Just need to run it into both panels next time I’m up.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 4 Dec 2021 09:19pm
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Nice trench!
Now that you have done it, how much per hour do you figure that work is worth?
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2021 08:00am
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The first 35-40 from existing power pole was easy going, angered and broke through all those holes in 1-2 hours. The last 2-3 ft by cabin had road gravel on top with no snow cover and there was about and inch of clay, so needless to say it was like concrete and prolly took 2hrs just for that section. Then prolly spent another 1-2 cleaning and emptying the trench.
So it wasn’t horrible minus the last part. Without the auger I would’ve given up pretty quick, that made easy work of things using tools I had.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 5 Dec 2021 02:27pm
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I did a 100ft trench once for a septic. 2hrs for the first 80ft. 2 days for the last 20ft. Your only a bit of ledge rock away from all hell breaking loose. That trench was 6ft wide by the time I was done.
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