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ThisOldCabinNJ
Member
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# Posted: 4 Oct 2021 11:26am
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Hi Folks,
My name is Al and I am a new member here and possibly soon to be a cabin owner.
I need some logical input from other seasoned cabin owners or DIYer's. I'm about to buy an old log cabin (ca. 1925) that's in need of a lot of work and one hang up I'm really focused on is how I myself can repair said sagging roof... I don't want to hire a contractor (just yet) and have plenty of muscle to help. I think I have a good handle on what needs to be done but I would like some input from those who may have had to do something like before. I know, I know, I should call an engineer but let's discuss it here first and i'll find an engineer to sign off on it later. This isn't my first home and I'm far too familiar with remodeling old homes.I'm also mechanically inclined.
I obtained a copy of a home inspection report. The report notes that the roof is sagging and the "ridge beam" is cracked. First off, this cabin has a ridge board, not a ridge beam. So i'm not too worried about the so-called crack. Second, I know that with a ridge board (like is currently is), you need supporting rafters and collar ties to properly support the roof. I should also mention that this cabin was built to have a cathedral ceiling which is my guess as to why they didn't put additional rafters in.
The cabin is 20' x 28' with the ridge of the roof being 28' in length. There are currently only TWO "rafters" being used as rafter ties at the 8' height (base of the roof) that are not dimensional lumber but a medium size log. They are placed closer to the center of the building across the 20' dimension (perpendicular to the ridge board).
So my thoughts are this: I first find a way to support the floor (its a wood floor over a basement). I can then jack up parts of the ridge board/rafter with a BIG bottle jack and a post. Once happy with the level results, I will mount rafter ties (dimensional lumber) closer to the top of the bottom 1/3 of the roofs height (I'm thinking I can place the bottom of the beam to be about 9-1/2 feet above the floor which will buy me a little more headroom). I also plan to add collar ties within the top 1/3 of the roofs height which will serve as a 4' or so wide flat ceiling. I want to finish the inside of the sloped ceiling with T&G and leave the rafter ties exposed.
I read somewhere you need rafter ties at LEAST every 48" - the roof is 24" on-center for what its worth. The home has been standing since ~1925. This doesn't mean the roof is going to hold up forever but in the current state, its' held up this far, anything additional I strengthen up only makes it better.
In a perfect world where I was made of $$, i'd hire a contractor to rip the roof off and build it right but that's not realistic right now and I need to make do for the time being. I should also mention Im on a limited budget and this is the going to be one of the first projects to tackle. This will be my personal home.
Thanks for any input and sorry for such a long post!
Regards,
Al C from New Jersey.
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travellerw
Member
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# Posted: 4 Oct 2021 06:45pm
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I think your plan sounds fine, however I will suggest that you use some ratchet straps to pull the walls/rafters together as you jack up. If you measure the walls on the ends and in the middle, I'm willing to bet you will find them much wider in the middle.
Just jacking up, might actually push the rafters away from the top plate. Pulling in at the same time should eliminate that!
Of course I would closely inspect all the wood for signs of rot and weakness as well!
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 4 Oct 2021 09:10pm
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I would also pull the walls in. C clamps make for a prety easy and cheap bracket to throw over the top plate and attach a 2in ratchet strap to...once the ceiling is removed.
Have you seen the crack? What size are the roof rafters? Can you post pics? If your just going on the inspectors word I would venture to say he didnt actualy see a crack and since you say it's a ridge board you may know more than him. I actualy never got a home inspection on my current house. Not much point if you know your stuff.
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snobdds
Member
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# Posted: 5 Oct 2021 12:46am
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I saw an engineer, that owns a cabin by me, attach cables into his top plate (a log) and tension a turnbuckle...which brought the top of his walls in to fix a saggy roof. He didn't even touch the roof.
The problem was, his place developed a material memory. The wood didn't want to be in its new straightness. It was creating tension in other areas. He used a lot of Simpson ties locking everything together in metal plates. He did leave two cables, one on each side of the cabin as redundancy.
We get 20 feet of snow, and he hasn't said anything since he fixed it.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 5 Oct 2021 10:57am - Edited by: gcrank1
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In my youth on an old farm (barn was built Aug. 1897) we had to 'jack, level and brace' the various buildings, including the farmhouse.
Thinking and prep is important but safety is paramount.
Tie things together so you dont pop things apart.
When jacking only go a bit at a time.
We had enough set-ups that making a rotation of them kept the projects moving (pun intended, lol).
Iirc the house took over a year to correct one sagging central support beam under the floor. At least it was an old boulder basement with easy access. Dad would turn the jack-screw every Sat morning.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 5 Oct 2021 01:39pm
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My current house is 3 different additions on a 1930s old farm house. I had a bunch of sagging floor joists and put a beam under there along with putting 3/4 subfloor ontop of 1x subfloor. That spot creaked and popped every night within a few hours of each other for about 2yrs.
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ThisOldCabinNJ
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2021 09:41am - Edited by: ThisOldCabinNJ
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Hi Folks,
Thanks for the positive and detailed replies. I guess I'm use to dealing with the rest of the internet and expected some garbled responses. It's refreshing to get useful information for a change. 
That said, I'm attempting to attach pictures of the roof. I still haven't been able to get back in the house (im under real estate contract so I have to wait on realtor) but these pics will kind of display the roof structure. You can see two large logs spanning the roof in the center of the cabin. I'm assuming these are what the original builder thought would suffice as rafter ties. If I can find a source for logs, log rafter ties would look awesome but I unfortunately want to move this project along so I think i'm sticking with dimensional lumber...
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2021 11:00am
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Welcome to the magnificent obsession!
Hmmm, wonder if those logs are an 'afterthought'?
And how are they attached at the walls?
Also wonder if the rafter size is adequate to the snow loads?
Before purchase Id want to get side to side and end measurements to find if the walls are bowing out.
Hope you are getting a steal of a price, or at least the price of replacing the whole roof deducted. This IS a big deal.
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ThisOldCabinNJ
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2021 11:57am
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Quoting: gcrank1 Welcome to the magnificent obsession!
Thanks! Its a much better obsession than the stupid classic cars I love and keep wasting $ on. At least this will provide me a dwelling AND workshop for myself. LOL
Anyhow, I found a "better" pic of where at least one of the logs are "tied" to. The log wall has clearly moved outward as seen in the pic.
Now that you mentioned it, those 'rafter tie logs' were probably added years later as a last-ditch effort to keep the walls from completely pushing out. The logs are interlocked at the ends but they've still moved nonetheless. :::gulp:::
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 7 Oct 2021 02:35pm
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Im no log structure expert, but....
That looks to me like a Whole Lotta Work & Expense.
The topside/roof got your attention, wonder what the issues are down lower; ie, the lower runs and 'foundation'?
The real 'log folks' here will likely show up shortly.
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2021 10:36am
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I also missed where this was a log cabin. Theres almost no pulling the walls in on a stacked log cabin like that. If you do you may just be pulling the top log in and your wall will still be bowing. I wouldnt get involved with this major of a job unless your paying for only the land.
I looked at many properties where I could tell the person didnt know how to build and/or the place was built with left over junk. Many of these places they wanted $30k over the land value. A poorly built mouse infested shack that's in il repair only takes away from the land value to me.
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NorthRick
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2021 05:08pm
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Quoting: snobdds I saw an engineer, that owns a cabin by me, attach cables into his top plate (a log) and tension a turnbuckle...which brought the top of his walls in to fix a saggy roof. He didn't even touch the roof. The problem was, his place developed a material memory. The wood didn't want to be in its new straightness. It was creating tension in other areas. He used a lot of Simpson ties locking everything together in metal plates. He did leave two cables, one on each side of the cabin as redundancy.
That's how I'd go about it. As others have said, do it slowly. And, as Brettny pointed out, watch that you aren't just moving the top log.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 8 Oct 2021 09:58pm
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Hmmm, pramatist that I am.....and OC on problem analysis/solving....
Mid-point of the outside cabin wall (or even 2 equidistant places on both sides), plant a log 'post' right up tight to the wall at the base.
Lean the top right up tight to the wall as far up as possible, pref to the top log.
Drill/bore through the top wall log and the outside posts for a long 'eyebolt' with the eye to the inside.
Cable up the eyebolts from each side with a turnbuckle inside.
Then you could draw the walls inward with the cable/turnbuckle, the outside posts providing the even pressure all the way up.
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ThisOldCabinNJ
Member
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2021 07:43am
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Quoting: gcrank1 Hmmm, pramatist that I am.....and OC on problem analysis/solving....
We sound very similar. LOL part of why I’m even more attracted to this particular house. Thank you for this input on the walls, I see how this is better than just strapping to the top plate. Depending on the situation when I get there, I may leave the walls as-is under the premise the logs are secure where they are. There isn’t too much bow in the front wall who’s “exterior†face is now the inside wall of a 4 season porch. It’s definitely moved though. The only concern I have is that when jacking up the roof, is that going to loosen up the top log and roll away? Hopefully not if it’s braced.
Quoting: Brettny I wouldnt get involved with this major of a job unless your paying for only the land.
Ugh, I’ve been considering this very statement over the last few weeks. In northern NJ property is a premium, especially right now. At $92k, I’m willing to take this [big] risk. It’s on just under a half acre and the property just needs cleanup and well, a roof repair. I’m fact, I could live with the sag as long as it’s braced proper and safe.
The sellers family has owned the cabin since ~1972 so that’s at least a bonus too. I am a bit disappointed though they took out the pull chain toilet but left the claw foot tub
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DaveBell
Moderator
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2021 07:44am
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Looking at the pictures, I am not sure if its a sagging roof pushing out the walls, or bowing logs taking the roof with it?
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Brettny
Member
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# Posted: 9 Oct 2021 08:19am
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$92k for 0.5ac with a cabin that needs major repair...that's prety pricy. I live about 1.5-3hrs from there. Why northern NJ? The prices are high because you could still be commuting distance to NYC and if not your still weekend getaway distance from NYC.
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spencerin
Member
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# Posted: 16 Oct 2021 06:37pm
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gcrank1, that's a great idea.
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 17 Oct 2021 10:56am
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In the picture of the walls separating there is a window. It could be removed. And a beam placed outside running vertically up n down the exterior. Better with 2 beams .one on each side of the window. Or a hole could be cut through the logs to run a cable through. Near the center of the wall such as 4' up from the floor.
After it is pulled in. You can use the window opening again. I've seen where door openings can sag out. The door is frame removed. Then the wall pulled straight. May have to use a tree outside as a base to jack against along with a post to push again the bowed wall. Then use a cutting edge off a graded blade. Cut a line down the center of the logs to recieve the rigid piece of (rustolium painted so it doesn't rust) steel. To work as a spine of sorts.
If this is a good price on the land and you like it, win win. I wouldn't be afraid of the project. It's been there a while so it must have something going for it.
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