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Stonnie
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2021 08:20pm - Edited by: Stonnie
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Hi guys, we recently purchased an awesome property with a small hunting cabin. The main room of the cabin is 20'x20 and it has a 10'x20' fenced in back porch.
The structure seems relatively sound, but it has quite a few issues. Since I'm new to small cabins, I sought out this forum to get some ideas from people who are familiar with this type of building and remodeling project.
I'm all ears and I would love to get some input into how/if I can turn this cabin into an awesome self sufficient off grid cabin.
In order of importance, I would like to do the following:
1. Metal roof with solar set up
2. Figure out what to do with the exterior siding. The siding seems to be barn wood with some type of caulking, but the caulking is missing in many areas
3. Sanitation. I'm thinking that maybe I need to build an outhouse of some type
4. Covered outdoor patio for entertainment, cooking, and work space
5. Rain catchment system
Thanks in advance for any insights and ideas!
Stonnie
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2021 09:37pm - Edited by: gcrank1
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Welcome!
The place looks worth fixing up. And not unlike ours in 'look'.
We have a rough sawmill board offgrid/dry 16x24.
Rainbarrel for utility water, carry in potable most every trip. A 2.5gal. supply stays on site in stainless steel, a 2.5gal Coleman water cooler travels with us.
612w 12v solar (6 panel array) that I invert right off the bat-bank to 120vac, works dandy. It runs the LED lighting, usb ports, tool rechargers; ie, light duty loads.
The little inverter/generator is used to run power tools, the microwave, toaster, 30 cup old perc coffee maker re-purposed to be an elec water heater. The gen only gets used when that heavy draw stuff needs to be run.
Ours is a Champion 1700/2000w inv/gen and it has been a game changer. They now have a dual-fuel 2500w model that I would have bought had it been available. Honda started that inv/gen thing with their EU2000, iirc, they are still the Gold Std.
Solar is a considerable topic. I see you have some arrays already that appear to need some love. You can make some decent ground racks from treated 2x4s that will allow moving the array(s) to optimize and look better. Roof mount might be Ok but ground mounts were better for me.
We have a metal roof. If it had come with a good asphalt shingle roof we would have waited until it needed re-roofing and done metal. Metal did make for a better rain-barrel system for us over the prev cabin's asphalt shingles.
A good roof is a priority over siding, imo.
Sanitation? look into your locale's regulations. In the beginning you may be able to use the 'luggable loo' method; info online.
Fwiw, Im installing a mini-septic tank. It wont meet the regs/approval but it will work just like a big household one; isnt that the idea of sanitation? We dont need much capacity for the 2 of us at an 'occasional' place.
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Stonnie
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2021 09:46pm
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Thanks so much for the feedback!
Can you tell me a little more about the way the boards are used for siding? It seems like the planks should be vertical with batten strips, instead of horizontal.
Between the boards is some kind of caulk but I'm not sure what it is or if it's worth redoing.
Under the siding is Tyvek and it seems to be in good shape.
Would I be better off taking the siding off and replacing it with vertical boards and batten?
I see what you mean about the roof mounted solar not being in the optimal position for efficiency. I'll look into a portable array. Do you have any recommendations for brands? I have a small renergy setup that I've been pretty happy with, but I'm open to suggestions.
With the roof, I was thinking that I would go with metal roof and feed the rain water into an above ground metal cistern.
Are composting toilets popular on this forum?
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2021 10:08pm
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Imo the commercial solar racks are nice and they know it; read, expensive. I wasnt feeling that 'flush' so I looked online for ideas and build my own simple ones. No regrets.
Btw, Ive jacked my racks into different orientations several times to get what works for me, which is not what the books say to use. My location isnt optimal and I get shading by 1pm. It would have been a mistake for me to roof mount not knowing what I did not know.
My green sawmill random width boards were nailed up hor. too, then shrank leaving good sized random width gaps. We talked about 're-chinking' them (expensive!) but I agree, mounting vert. and battens would be better. Bet there is a good reason (or 2) that old farm barns were done that way?
Metal cistern? How about the IBC 'totes'?
Use a '1st flush diverter' off the roof before the filtered input to the tank.
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ICC
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# Posted: 19 Sep 2021 11:44pm
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When a property has sufficient space to place PV panels on ground mounts or pole mounts, that is, IMO, vastly superior to mounting on the roof. Not just for orientation of the array but it keeps you off the roof and means fewer perforations.
As for the siding, horizontal boards should be lapped like traditional lap siding. the upper board overlaps the top of the board below. That way water runs down and cannot seep into those horizontal joints the caulk is not filling properly. What you have would make a great underlayment for new siding. Either lap siding or if you really like board & batten, do it vertically over what is there. I would lap side, but that is my dislike for board & batten talking. I also like cement fiber lap siding but then I may have greater concerns about wildfires than you do in KY.
Metal roof is good for wildfires too and the only thing to use for rain catchment.
Composting toilets work well but do need more user intervention than a septic system. Outhouses are not legal in many places anymore. Check your local or state regulations. Do you have a well? I guess not but a well would limit where an outhouse could be located.
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Nobadays
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2021 08:37am
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Quoting: Stonnie 1. Metal roof with solar set up
Metal roof has been well covered... As far as solar goes it really depends on what you want to power - an energy audit with all expected appliances, etc. (HERE is a link for a good load calculator, the only issue with it is fridge/and or freezer calculates @ 24-7 when they only run ~8hrs/day) this is your first step.
The second thing IMO when looking into off-grid solar is the "fiddle factor," do you enjoy messing around with solar stuff and good at electrical problem solving? Or... do you want to just flip a switch and it works 99.9% of the time. This is going to determine if you buy cheaper Chinese equipment, some of which is actually pretty dependable, or bite the bullet and install a "residential" system designed for full time use.
Whichever way you go it will nearly always be cheaper to build your own system than to buy pre-packaged "systems." A note is due here, Renogy, as Steve-S has put it in other posts, has a great advertising department but is not known to build good quality equipment. If yours is working well, great but I wouldn't go with them for a new system.
For solar, I would point you toward 2 forums, the first being one that primarily deals with residential systems and leans toward top tier equipment ie. Victron, Schneider, etc, you will find that HERE. The second is the DIY forum, they lean toward cheaper, but usually quality equipment with more fiddle factor, you will find that HERE. The diy forum has some resources with "blueprints" of different sizes of solar systems.
Peruse them both and you can learn a lot.
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2021 11:39am
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Might be worth getting an estimate from the local grid company, especially if you envision this being more than occasional use.
It is true that solar panel prices are way down from a few years ago, and Id recommend going a min. of 24v run to an mppt scc into a 24v bat-bank. Invert from 24v to 120vac at the bats and wire the place like a simple house plan.
You arent heavily invested in the array, scc and bats right now? Likely 12v? That is the learning kit; ie, where you get some experience, have LED lighting (I love good lighting!) but 12v is for small and mobile systems, If you are serious about solar imo you need to be thinking higher voltage. And realize You are the power company when it drops.....
The huge expensive part is the batteries now, you cant do more than basic stuff with 1 or 2 so called deep cycle 'marine' bats.
After that it gets expensive and the grid-tie may make sense, you should know the costs. Just off the top of my head I'll call solar a min. $2000, probably more like $3k for a place like yours.
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BRADISH
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2021 12:56pm
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Stonnie - What's your access like to the cabin? Drive in, or ATV only?
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Stonnie
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2021 04:56pm
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Dang, you guys are great.
I just looked up fiber lap siding and that looks like it would be great, if I can lay it over what's already on the cabin.
As far as solar on the roof goes, I see what you guys are saying about it not being optimal. The cabin is already wired for solar, but I don't really know if its proper or not. I'll take some photos of the wiring, batteries, and inverter.
No more electricity than I need, I think I'll just stick with my generators until I've done some more research. I already have the Honda EU 2200i companion set up.
For heat, there's a ventless propane heater on the wall.
I do not have a well. The fella that owned it before bought water at a local place and transported it in big, white, caged, container.
There is a creek right behind the cabin though and it flows all year long.
I have a pretty good gravel driveway right to the cabin.
After all these great posts, this is what I'm thinking:
1. Metal roof with rain catchment system
2. Fiber cement board siding
3. Generators for electricity until I'm more familiar with the subject
4. Covered concrete pad for bbq, work, fire pit, etc...
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BRADISH
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2021 05:35pm
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Quoting: Stonnie I have a pretty good gravel driveway right to the cabin.
That might as well be a highway in my neck of the woods!
I'd say you've got yourself a heck of a place there bud.
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Stonnie
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2021 06:04pm
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Thank you!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2021 06:35pm
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Elec and more:
I had done 12vdc in Cabin I for lighting and exchanging batteries, leave one there, bring one home to charge, repeat. Did the same at Cabin II in between refurbing the solar, then did some 12vdc solar to bat-bank eliminating the swapping (what a relief for my back, bats are Heavy), the some 12vdc along with the inverted to 120vac. It became clear quickly that the 12vdc required waayyy bigger gauge wires for my size cabin than 120vac would, so I went straight 120. It is pretty seamless inv/gen to solar this way. No transfer switch for me, no sir, I unplug the solar to cabin and plug in the gen when we need it running. Foolproof and simple/inexpensive; used an RV/marine type exterior wall plug. Inside is a basic ext. rated 2 fuse box for a pool/hot tub and my distribution is mostly through a 'power-strip'. The LED lights draw so few amps that they are wired with basic 'lampcord' to std Edison base fixtures with pull chain on/off switches. Waayyy simple.
Basically, if your wiring works off the gen it will work off the solar bat-bank when inverted to 120. Just Do Not try to run the 'big stuff' off a small set up. Note that I mean dont try to run a 1000w or bigger inverter off a marine battery or two, that takes Lots More battery! Stick to light draw devices, LED lights on a 300ish watt Pure Sine Wave inverter. Gen for Big Stuff.
By doing it this way and having the choice of solar Or gen power I have been Very Pleased with the results all this past year.
With running water close by Id be tempted to run a pump line, filtered, from the creek into that IBC tote for utility and only haul in potable, the biggest water use is for utility. Keep the tote in the shade to min. algae growth and add some regular bleach per the right amount of your capacity; we do a 'treatment' the first of each month.
Btw, our 50ish gal pickle barrel rain-barrel has been far more than we use, we've never gone below 1/4 of capacity. The tote might be too big for you?
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BRADISH
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# Posted: 20 Sep 2021 06:54pm
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GCrank1 has a lot of good input.
The one recommendation I would add to this would be to look into something like a Samlex Pure Sine inverter. The 1200w and above models include an auto-transfer switch, thus alleviating any concerns when switching. You can leave your battery bank and generator permanently wired to the inverter and never have to 'swap' a thing! Turn on generator when pulling big loads, kill it when finished and your lights, etc will never skip a beat.
I used this setup in a camper I had with 4 golf cart batteries and it was a dream. Only change I will make when going to my cabin will be to size up to a 2000w Samlex Inverter.
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EdnoCaspery
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# Posted: 22 Sep 2022 07:32am
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Hi. It's a pretty cool house. I like it. I'll say this, man. Absolutely any old house can be a great, cozy place. My friends bought a little house off the coast. They renovated it, and now it's a paradise in their lives. As I recall, the bathroom was the hardest part of the renovation. But the bathroom remodel lafayette la helped them with that. I know it really is a headache and an expense. But if you decide to do a cool renovation, you won't regret it. The main thing is to invest once and make a quality change.
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travellerw
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# Posted: 22 Sep 2022 12:32pm
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I think you are on the right track with the generator thought.
I'm currently building a solar setup at my cabin. I have been putting it together for about a year, buying used and at auctions to save money. I have all the pieces now and the costs is coming in right around $2500. (This includes everything, batts, charge controllers, panels, inverter, even rental of equipment to set the poles)
In the meantime I have been running the cabin off a 3000W inverter generator. Sigh.. last long weekend I burned $22 in fuel, including powering the mini-split for heat in the mornings. On the ride home I was doing the math. It would take 113 3 day weekends to break even on fuel savings.
Why again am I building a solar setup. Oh ya, as a hobby, we'll just call it that so I don't cry!
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gcrank1
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# Posted: 22 Sep 2022 05:19pm
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LOL, Trav!
Kinda me too. I like messing about with the stuff and unlike an all-in-one I can mix/match components, upscale/downscale, etc at a whim. But if my current place had not come with a hacked together 6 panel/600w setup I wouldnt have bought one and learned all this stuff.....
Id have been happily running off the Lil'Champ inv/gen and swapping out my 100Ah LFP's. OH, WAIT, that is exactly what we have done this whole past season! The array has been down and stored all year; in the wings, so to speak. We have been doing just fine but our elec power needs are modest. It all will be ready to mess with again; maybe next year.
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