Pre-cutting lumber offsite...good idea or bad?

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Small Cabin Forum / Cabin Construction / Pre-cutting lumber offsite...good idea or bad?

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WILL1E Moderator	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 08:02am Reply My property is just over 2hrs away. I plan to take 2 weeks off to build the walls and roof and get it dried in. The foundation work will be done on weekends prior to that. During the weeknights however, i have plenty of time to prep. Since i've got the entire cabin drawn in 3D cad down to the last boards i'm wondering if pre-cutting the wall studs and rafters is a good idea or not. All my walls studs are standard 10' so i need to cut a few inches off each one. Then there's the headers, jack studs, etc. The gambrel rafters and brace plates get into more fancy cutting. It seems like i could save alot of time by pre-cutting everything i can so that when i'm onsite it's just a matter of layout and assembly. Any thoughts, experience, watchouts with doing this other than measure twice and cut once?!

toyota_mdt_tech Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 08:17am Reply I'd cut as needed, maybe trim the framing studs down, but the jack studs etc, do as needed to avoid waste. So 116 5/8 inches on studs? That would speed up wall layout. Make sure you pull your measurements all from one corner, the same corner. Pick one. All wall studs will align with studs on opposing wall, rafters land on studs sheeting goes down nicely. Screw top plate onto bottom plate, then do layout with pencil, transfer your marks to top and bottom, then separate them and install studs on your marks. Finally getting the ball rolling, keep us posted with pictures, start a thread on your build and add as progress is made. Include pitfalls too. Fellow builders like to know those too, to watch for, or avoid.

WILL1E Moderator	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 08:25am Reply I don't have my drawings handy but i think my wall studs will be 114". Bottom plate (1.5") + doubled top plate (3") and I want the 4x10' sheathing to cover the the subfloor (3/4") and overlap the rim joist by ~0.75". My walls are 16" OC but my rafters are 24" OC, so every other rafter set falls on a stud. Is this going to be an issue?

Brettny Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 09:07am Reply I would cut your stud length and even cut the jack studs along with building your headers. Make sure your headers are long enough to include the jack studs. I wouldn't cut top/bottom plates as you may want to or not want them landing over a stud. As for the gambrel rafters if your comfortable enough with the width and have some wiggle room on how there going to sit on the top plate cut them along with all your gambrel joint (plywood) connections. If you have a trailer big enough I would even put half the gambrel rafters together so you can just assemble two together and put up. What ever you do bring/buy extra of everything. Screws, glue, lumber and saw blades. Yes you could drive to the local box store..or you could keep working and return the unused items in 3 weeks at your convenience.

Brettny Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 09:09am Reply O and once you have things with more complex cuts figured out, layed out in real lumber make a template and cut every other one off that first piece.

Steve_S Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 10:26am Reply I'm just tossing up yet another structure... 1 left after this and FINIS ! Tools Down forever. I did all my measurements, rechecked them 3x, put them down for a few days, went and rechecked again with a fresh mind... Caught a couple of minor miscalcs, corrected and verified. I break things up into "Sections / Modules" like I did with my house. I precut the lumber for the section, mark it appropriately (using a permanent marker, damned rain can muck up soft pencil writting) I use a Hard HB Pencil when doing the Stud, header mark-outs as rain won't wash it away... (lessons learned dept). Because I am building alone without any extra hands, it all has to be One Man Manageable (well 1/2 a man thanks to the shitty health issues) so wall sections are 8' long. Tall Wall sections of 10' are trickier obviously and if fully sheathed a real PITA to lift into position. Lesson Learned Dept. again, I realized that only sheathing the lower 4' makes things plenty rigid & stiff but still allows for fine adjustments (squaring & leveling) while keeping the weight in control and easier to "Man Handle". Few things which affect the assembly. In my particular case, I use a Air powered Framing Nail Gun so assembly is pretty darn quick and using the Galvanised adhesive coated nails it all goes together quite solidly. Wall Sections are then "Screwed" together because IF Murphy's Laws get applied and things get cockeyed a couple of screws can make adjustments a breeze and then you can lock it down with screws or nails. BTW: I have used MANY brands of Nails for the guns and while they all work, some can be quite crappy & jam up or worse. I quickly (well after about 50,000 nails) I realized that I was wasting Time & Money using offbrands and now I only use PASLOAD Galvanised nails. One offbrand was so bad, that the gun-jam wrecked the breach mechanism, resulting in replacing the gun. (Wanna hear a Fred Flinstone Imitation ?) Why Galvanised ? As you may remember My house is finished in Eastern White Cedar and lots of wood everywhere, and I had no interest in seeing Nail Tear Stains everywhere. For the few extra cents that Galvanised costs, it's well worth it IMO, even just for the regular building. There are things NOT to precut because the reality is, you cannot stretch wood no matter what. For example, when you cut your Master Rafter, you want to get it right first before cutting up a bunch and you won't get there till you are ready to build the roof... Generally these are pretty obvious. A quick trick to assembling Squared Walls. I lay it all out flat on the floor / deck which I pencil a full 8'x8' square and build within it, makes things so much quicker and less fussy. Simple trick that can save alot of stress. Energy Tip ! I forgot what you intend to do with Insulation on the house, but do consider making all of your door & window headers as Thermally Broken so that the cold/heat do not transfer through them. It does make a difference which you can feel in winter, you'd be surprised. Good Luck & Have Fun.

gcrank1 Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 10:27am - Edited by: gcrank1 Reply If I was more experienced maybe I could make a plan, cut all and have it actually work as planned....but from the changes and adjustments Ive had to make on projects Im safer in cutting & fitting on site. Of course, after getting a good start and confidence Ive done multiples on the deck and things move along smartly.

Brettny Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 10:35am Reply Quoting: Steve_S when you cut your Master Rafter, you want to get it right first before cutting up a bunch and you won't get there till you are ready to build the roof... Generally these are pretty obvious. Generaly this is true with a common rafter or even a shed style rafter. With a gambrel roof though you dont use a birds mouth and have quite a bit of wiggle room along with the fact that hes going to put two lower gambrel roofs on he will have plenty of wiggle room. The wall top plate width should be the width of the subfloor/floor joists because everything is going to be plumb, square and level.

WILL1E Moderator	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 10:54am Reply Quoting: Brettny With a gambrel roof though you dont use a birds mouth and have quite a bit of wiggle room along with the fact that hes going to put two lower gambrel roofs on he will have plenty of wiggle room. I'm still waffling on this. For simplicity sake i'm leaning towards doing a birdsmouth since i'm using 2x8's for the rafters and 2x6's for the walls. The birdsmouth would give me the perfect gap for venting the roof through the eaves without adding another bend in the roof line. Still weighing out the pros/cons of this though.

snobdds Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 10:55am Reply It's so late in the season to be building, I think you have no choice other than to get as much done when you have the time. You will have to make fixes on the fly, which might negate the time savings, but just keep moving forward. Setting up a good cutting station at the site will be more than enough to be efficient cutting.

Grizzlyman Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 03:52pm Reply Your call of course. But cutting and measuring takes about 30 seconds per cut. Maybe a minute if you really drag It out. If you have 30 cuts on a wall you save 30 minutes on siteâ€¦ but if you screw something up in a precut then you give back a lot of the time you saved in fixing it. Studs are probably ok as they donâ€™t vary but I myself wouldnâ€™t do any other cuts- just not worth it. Just my .02. Nothing is ever 100% perfect.

travellerw Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 05:18pm - Edited by: travellerw Reply I have a question.. Do you have help? 14 days is a good amount of time, but if you are by yourself, much of this stuff will take 2-3 times as long as if you had 2 people. Some of it is literally unachievable with 1 person (raising 2x8 roof trusses for example, raising walls, lifting beams onto foundation, ect.) I'm with the others, setup a good worksite onsite. Get some help (even part of the time). Don't bother cutting studs or other framing members at home, you will just end up with wasted stock mostly . The exception would be the trusses, like I did, I would build them in your garage if you have the capability to get them to site (a 1/2 ton truck won't cut it). However, this can't really be done until your walls are up as you really need that measurement and it won't be what you think it is (and it will be different in the middle as opposed to the ends). Make sure you have the tools you will require. Not just saws and hammers, but compressor, nail gun, sabor saw, levels, squares, ladders, scaffolds, screw guns, glue, glue applicators, FALL ARREST EQUIPMENT (seriously your roof will be 2.5 stories high). Every piece of equipment you are missing will either extend the time of the job, or require you to stop and acquire it (no idea if possible at your location). Most importantly.. GET STARTED.. The season is now VERY short and I can guarantee you will be slowed down by the cold.

ICC Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 06:37pm Reply If you have drawn plans and double checked how it all fits together and that all the math is correct, and if you can measure and cut accurately to those plans, then sure. My brother has a small factory (a barn really) where he has the guys cut and frame up wall sections that are transported to the build site. Voila, the next day the walls are all up and the truss factory trusses are installed. Precuts can be magic or the devil incarnate. It all depends....

NorthRick Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 07:07pm Reply Like Steve S, I prebuilt some parts at home. 4'X8' wall panels. Designed it so windows ended up in the middle of the panels. They fit in the back of my pickup and once on site we could stand them up and nail them to the floor and together. Lay the top plate across and nail it down and you got a wall. I made my own trusses and cut all the cords at home. At the cabin I made a jig on the floor and dropped the pieces in and nail on the gusset plates. It all went pretty well.

NorthRick Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 07:11pm Reply Quoting: travellerw 14 days is a good amount of time, but if you are by yourself, much of this stuff will take 2-3 times as long as if you had 2 people. Some of it is literally unachievable with 1 person (raising 2x8 roof trusses for example, raising walls, lifting beams onto foundation, ect.) Most importantly.. GET STARTED.. The season is now VERY short and I can guarantee you will be slowed down by the cold. I disagree - by yourself takes at least 5 times longer. Also, I have achieved some of the items on your solo unachievable list but those take even longer. The cold does slow things down but doesn't mean the season is over. I do agree that the most important thing is to just get started.

Princelake Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 08:21pm Reply My cabin is 3 hours away.When I built my outhouse I prebuilt it in a garage and put all the parts up and had it up in like a hour. I framed,steel roof,and windows/doors in my 16x24 cabin in a total of 5 days with 2-3 guys. I had a 3rd guy to help put the trusses and steel roofing on. Iâ€™ll be heading out soon for 1 more day for soffit and fascia. I would recommend one more person join you to get this thing done. Have you included travel time and hauling material? How large are you going? When I built my 10x12 shed everything could fit in a 7x14 trailer. For my cabin I had all the lumber delivered. You could build the cabin at home tack it all together with screws. Number all the parts and package them and build it on site with nails.

travellerw Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 08:23pm Reply Quoting: NorthRick Also, I have achieved some of the items on your solo unachievable list but those take even longer. Yup, anything is possible, but it just takes time.. e.g. on the trusses you could build a big A-frame and use a hand winch or pulley system, but how long would that take to construct and move. Also a lot of the time its just less safe then doing it with help. As to the cold, the season is not over (up here, construction continues to -45C), but its SUPER slowed down.. and not pleasant. It sucks to be working on stuff with cold hands, or having to remove your gloves every 30 seconds so you can complete some task. Personally, I want to enjoy this process as much as I will enjoy the results!

travellerw Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 08:30pm Reply Quoting: Princelake You could build the cabin at home tack it all together with screws. Number all the parts and package them and build it on site with nails. I think you missed his other posts.. He is building a 16X32, but upgraded everything. 2X6 walls @ 10ft, 2x8 trusses, 2X10X16 floor joists.. Really heavy and bulky when put together. I know cause I just framed pretty much the same thing (a 16X28 with all the same upgrades). It would have taken a semi truck to get it to site. I trucked all my lumber on a 3500lb 8X14 trailer and it took many many trips so I didn't overload the trailer (3/4" ply or OSB weighs a ton and the flooring alone was one trip). Not to mention oversized. The trusses required a ton of straps, flags and I had a chase vehicle when I brought them!

Princelake Member	# Posted: 15 Sep 2021 09:34pm Reply Since heâ€™s going 16x32 I would do it all on site. Hauling all that material is a large task. For my 16x24 cabin I did the floor with 2x8x16 floor, 2x6x8 walls, 7/12 trusses, metal roof, plus windows and doors. I had a flat deck deliver framing material, flat deck for all plywood, trailer load for trusses, trailer load with scaffolding and metal roofing, pick up load for windows and doors. You have to include all your travel time.

Houska Member	# Posted: 16 Sep 2021 06:35am Reply I am far from as experienced a builder as many of you....but I'll add one factor: lumber quality. Given the lack of supply (and now oversupply), around here a lot of lumber is poorly seasoned and more liable to warp. If you're cutting on site (and you have decent reserve), you curse and take the next board. If you've pre-cut some time ago, you'll have rework and waste. Or at least spend the time you thought you'd save on site improvising adjustments. So I'd limit precise pre-cutting to the material you're going to use on your next property visit, and/or where you can easily deal with warping during assembly. Not stuff that sits there, even weather protected.

WILL1E Moderator	# Posted: 16 Sep 2021 10:18am Reply Thanks for all the feedback fellas! Unfortunately it will be just me for this build. Wife works, teenage son is back in school and don't have any friends that are into this sort of thing or would trust around a build site. I've never had help in any construction project in the past so i'm hoping i can make do this time. If i got into a real pickle, my neighbor next to our land is a retired full timer up there so i could probably ask him for a hand if it came down to that.

WILL1E Moderator	# Posted: 16 Sep 2021 10:21am Reply I bought a 14' tandem axle trailer earlier this week, so that plus my 1 ton truck i should be able to haul everything i need. The footings, block and boards for the built up beams are loaded up and ready for this weekend. Joists and subfloor will be the following weekend. When the main build starts, i'll haul the studs and wall sheathing on a load and then everything else (rafters, roof sheathing, etc.) i'll pick up at the Menards about an hour from the land at the end of the day when i run out of light.

WILL1E Moderator	# Posted: 16 Sep 2021 10:25am Reply As for the cold...i love the cold and have a hatred for the heat! So cool or cold weather and fall foliage is what i've dreamt of building my cabin in. Might have a different opinion when all said and done, but for now it's prefect! Sorry for the short posts...trying to avoid the 403 forbidden errors!

gcrank1 Member	# Posted: 16 Sep 2021 10:42am Reply Gonna need at least a 'come-a-long' or a hand crank 'boat type' winch; I fit mine years ago with a steel cable and a length of chain bolted to the base to mount it up where ever. Then I got an 12vdc electric winch at Harbor Freight, like for an arv, it is pretty sweet. Those, some forethought and a long 'tow strap' have made my heavy/awkward project go much better.

travellerw Member	# Posted: 16 Sep 2021 11:57am Reply I would just keep in mind that I'm guessing 250 man hours to get my cabin to complete zipped up stage (with help). While I don't have structural framing experience, I have worked in oilfield construction, contracted finish carpentry, finished 5 basements, rebuilt a sailboat and am generally pretty handy with stuff. So I don't work slow and think that is a pretty average number. Another thing.. I would look to rent a picker truck, boom or man lift. YOU WILL NOT be able to set those joists safely by yourself without one. And thats the final thing.. Be safe.. Sounds like your site is like mine and pretty secluded. Working alone comes with big risks if you get hurt (why its not allowed in the oilfield). I took a circular saw to the leg when building my trusses (10ish stitches). Thankfully it was in my garage with my wife right there. Stuff happens, especially when you are on a timeline.

BRADISH Member	# Posted: 16 Sep 2021 12:25pm Reply Quoting: travellerw YOU WILL NOT be able to set those joists safely by yourself without one. I personally disagree. There's always another way to skin the ol cat.. Since he's assembling the beams out of multiple pieces he could easily do so in place. A couple quick clamps and some ingenuity can go a long way.

Brettny Member	# Posted: 16 Sep 2021 12:44pm Reply When I was rebuilding a 20x25ft section of my house I hauled all 7 home depot lumber carts full of lumber home on it. Everything from the floor joists to the roof sheething in one single load. A 16x32 brought up in sections isnt that big of a deal for a 14' trailer and a 1ton. As to how to set the rafters alone. You do the finish build onsite and put one end up over the outside wall..then pull them up and onto both walls. Now that I think of it I had one other person help with my 19' wide gambrel shed. Doing it alone I would use a ridge board, I didnt do this. With a ridge board it makes things a one man show. But if you can rent a man lift for a day for maybe $150 i would do that.

WILL1E Moderator	# Posted: 16 Sep 2021 01:06pm Reply For the rafters, assume i build them on the floor of the cabin. I was going to get a 16 or maybe even an 18' 2x6' and nail it as the bottom chord of the rafter assembly to keep it together, sitting flush with the birds mouth. Then i would just hook one end of that bottom chord on the top plate, then walk the other end up the ladder and hook the other side. Then all i have to do is rotate it up and nail'er in.

Steve_S Member	# Posted: 16 Sep 2021 01:30pm Reply FYI, Just returned from the Lumber Yard and prices are indeed dropping and hard. Of course this happens after several grand has already been dropped. KEEP A CLOSE WATCH ON YOUR LUMBER $$ Even a few days could save you a pile. My guy's at the yard told me to get "just what I needed" for now and one showed me the why (shipping invoice). * ALSO A GOTCHA they caught... They were shipped several lifts of wood that were processed in March & April and sat stored in one of the many yards, some of it very badly bundled... Let me just say that sopping twisted piles of "stuff" on those lifts are sitting in the scrapped pile. So some companies (Weyehauser in this case) are playing some very nasty games. Beware when buying Lumber and Pick it Yourself is now more important than ever before. Quick Clamp & Grips are a One Man Builders best buddies. Extra Long 5000LB Ratchet Straps also a Great Big HELP too... Come-Along and ATV Winch on an "anchor" board, also most helpful. I'm about to start on a Cantilevered Roof System and been plotting how I am going to accomplish it "One Man Banded"... It's gonna be creative ! The temp counterwights is going to the trixy bit. There are certainly many things you can prebuild or cut in prep but a few things like your roof rafter assembly, I would not.... That's when things get trixy if your out even a slight bit. It really is amazing how 1/8" out in one spot can become So Much More feet away ! and the Roof is the bugger that will make it into misery. Lessons Learned Dept. I also very quickly realized that having good scaffolding was essential so I bought 2 full sets 10' long scaffolds. I was quite torn over 8' or 10' but in the end, the 10' long was the best choice for my particular needs. If you can borrow some if you don't have any then that's a good idea. IF you are contemplating renting, realize that 2 weeks of rental = the cost of buying them which you can resell after your done with them. There are ALWAYS People looking for them and very often can be found on Kijiji / Craigslists as well.

Brettny Member	# Posted: 16 Sep 2021 02:12pm Reply Quoting: WILL1E For the rafters, assume i build them on the floor of the cabin. I was going to get a 16 or maybe even an 18' 2x6' and nail it as the bottom chord of the rafter assembly to keep it together, sitting flush with the birds mouth. Then i would just hook one end of that bottom chord on the top plate, then walk the other end up the ladder and hook the other side. Then all i have to do is rotate it up and nail'er in. O your going to attach the ceiling rafter right to the bottom. That makes things way easier. I would load them in through the end by sliding them up two pieces of wood and get all them up on the top plates..or almost all of them.

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