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ndthand1992
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 09:51am - Edited by: ndthand1992
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Hello All ,
I am new to the forum so please excuse this post if it is redundant. We are building our cabin in SE Ohio and have decided to install knotty pine T&G through the cabin with limited drywall. When I ordered the T&G we had the option of getting it pre-finished but it pushed the lead time out an additional 10-12 weeks , so we just ordered it unfinished with the plan to either leave it natural or finish ourselves. After reading several of the forum on here it seems we can not leave it unfished as it will darken considerably and that's not what we are wanting. I am looking for a clear stain the I can spray ( preferred ) through my Wagner airless. Ventilation is not a issue. Suggestion on what we can use to keep the natural color ? I have included a couple of picture of our little slice of heaven in the hills.
Thanks
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 10:16am
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BTDT with a LOT of Red & White Pine T&G, as everything in my home is real wood. Even the outside is live edge white cedar.
I suggest a water based clear semi-gloss urethane. You can spray it (wear a mask!) but it is fickle. Most good ones can be recoated within 2 hours in normal 75F/22C temps. A light sanding between coats makes for a much better finish and you can use 300 grit sanding sponges which made it super easy. 3 coats actually does make the difference for a nice finish. BE CERTAIN to wipe off the wood after sanding to prevent any of the dust from mixing back in.
Finish everything FIRST before laying it up on the walls. Use a Brad Nailer and nail inside the grove of the tongue to hide the brad holes.
Bevel Cut your laps and do an overlap to hide the "butt" which will shift when expanding & contracting from humidity & temps. See photo's.
Hope it helps, Good Luck
Steve
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WILL1E
Moderator
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 11:28am
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ndthand1992 beautiful place!! What's the cabin size? Do share more photos of your build...those of us who haven't built yet like to see build progress photos 
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ndthand1992
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 11:37am
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Thank you Willie , It is a 28' x 48' foot print with the ceiling height at 28' from the living room floor with a loft on a full basement. Roof has a 12/14 pitch. Semi A-Frame style.
Thank you Steve , I was worried about the bevel cuts which lead me to the decision to get the T&G "end matched" and I am completely pleased with. With the semi gloss urethane , do you notice any "yellowing" ?
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FishHog
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 11:42am
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We did ours in a very light white wash which actually keeps the interior of the cabin much brighter than wood. I like wood as well but too much of it can lead to a dark place especially on grey days
White oil based paint thinned with paint thinner and just whipped on with a rag followed by a dry rag
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Brettny
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 11:45am
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I would highly recommend you stain these boards before you put them up. It allows you to work like a human, on a bench and even get areas that you couldn't get when there installed
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FishHog
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 11:46am
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It’s a grey day here today but this should show it. Easy to wipe down for cleaning and still shows the wood
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 12:44pm - Edited by: Steve_S
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The Polyurethane I used had a UV Blocker in it to prevent sun fade etc. I see no yellowing at all as such but it is a mix of Red & White pine used throughout the interior. The Red Pine naturally darkens anyway and the Red does show out very nicely. The White pine did darken a wee bit (there is a few spots I can see it but I know where to look for it) but nothing anyone would say is noticeable.
My Windows & Door sills are also 6" deep as everything is installed within Bailey Boxes due to the type of construction. I used the same Urethane on that Pine which is most exposed to sunlight and even with the UV Blocker, there is some Sun Fade. SEE PHOTO's to see what I mean. No Yellowing though.
BUT ! I also used approximately 20 Gallons of Pure Shellac (wow that hits the wallet !) for my Great Room Ceilings (T&G Pine too) and the Beams in there. The Beams are Rough Cut Pine complete with saw marks for character. With the Shellac, there is certainly a Darkening of the wood. I used Pure Clear, NOT the coloured stuff. I DO NOT RECOMMEND using Shellac, you cannot go over it with something like Urethane, it is water soluble and there are tricky issues with it.
PS, I built all my cupboards, cabinets from Pine Stock, milled, routed all of my own baseboards, casings and moldings as well. Virtually everything in my house build is locally sourced and hand made by me. This is MY Bucket List item, so it's all in here.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 12:54pm
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Quoting: ndthand1992 With the semi gloss urethane , do you notice any "yellowing" ?
Select the water based clear coats if you want no yellowing, no color change to thewood. Minwax and Varathane both make them as well as a few other brand names. Minwax should not be sprayed. I am not sure about the Varathane brand water based clear coat. I always brush T&G boards. If applying a colored stain I always do the strips color before nailing up as that guarantees coverage over all the tongue. With color applied after installation there can be shrinkage that may expose unstained wood. Much of the time I also applied 1 or 2 coats of the clear coat before installation. Then fine sanding, wipe off the dust and do a third coat. Sometimes 4 on areas of potetial high touching.
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ndthand1992
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 03:45pm
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Great information , Thanks
Unfortunately we did have to start installing prior to coating due to time constraints so that is why I am looking for a sprayable kind if possible.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 05:52pm - Edited by: ICC
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Do you want as clear as possible or a light stain, as you mentioned a "clear stain" in the first post? Most stains are going to require wiping unless they are heavily pigmented and meant to be semi transparent. That, to me, obscures the wood grain and partially defeats the reason for staining.
If you simply want to clear coat the wood with no added color then the choice is water based or oil based finishes. Water based are very clear, like clear glass, in most cases. Oil based tend to be amber colored and darken or turn more yellow with age and sunlight exposure. Even the water based clear coats will darken a little with UV exposure, but not very much. The darkening is most noticable where something like a picture is hung on the wall. After a few years if the picture is removed the area that was covered will be slightly apparent.
The Varathane brand does make a water based clear coat that has UV inhibitors. It is an exterior grade finish and actually requires exposure to UV light to fully develop the UV resistance.
I do not know which water based clear coats, if any, can be sprayed. Note that the water based are milky white in liquid form, but dry clear. One caveat with the water based clear coats is that drips or excess that collects in cracks or crevices will not dry clear. A milky colored drip dries that way. That can be a pita to sand down and spot refinish. More noticable on darker woods but still very objectionable to me.
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gcrank1
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 07:28pm
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Ive had, and been in more than one place that had boxcar siding and such inside that never got a finish on it. In my case it was my '83-'84 build, it never darkened much, we thought it still looked good (no kids to color on the walls, etc) last year when we turned over the keys.
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Fanman
Member
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# Posted: 11 May 2021 10:35pm
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Clear shellac is another option. I did one room in our cabin with shellac (beaded plywood, not real t&G) and it still looks great 10 years later. Since it's alcohol based, it's a lot less toxic than some other finishes.
But yeah, do you really need a finish? My sister's ex's family had a cabin in NH that was all unfinished knotty pine. The wonderful smell of all that wood (even the doorknobs were hand carved pine) hit you like a brick wall when you came in from outside.
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ndthand1992
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2021 07:16am
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I was told about a Lacquer product last night that my cabinet guy suggested , he said it didn't see why it wouldn't work just fine. Here is what he suggested , anyone with experience wit this product ? He says it is sand able in less than a hour and can be sprayed with any problems.
ICC - We are wanting as clear a possible as we love the light color of knotty pine , the natural color. We have stayed in many many cabins over the years and it seems the ones that appear amber is color seem.....manufactured for lack of a better term.
One of the other reasons I am trying to go "sprayable" is due to the access of the ceiling with such a high pitch. We have some sketchy stuff built right now to install but not sure if I want to be doing allot of brushing and sanding on it.
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Steve_S
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# Posted: 12 May 2021 07:45am
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I've used lacquer on wood, it's a LOT of work and really it's for specialty work. I spent 12 hours doing the lacquer rub on a refinished antique piece... never again - what a freakin chore ! Ohh and it will crack over time ! Look at any antiques that are finished with lacquer.
I used Varathane Ultimate (Water Based) Semi-Gloss. But I did not spray it. I'm not sure it can be sprayed or what the result would be. Most of these coatings require at least 2 to 3 coats and they need to be sanded between coats. If not, you get a rougher finish which most likely will not appeal. It also runs really easy, and that's no fund to cleanup after.
BTW, Unfinished wood may seem appealing BUT there are Gotcha's to it !
1) The wood will absorb & release more moisture - swell & shrink.
2) It provides wonderful dust grabbing & holding capability.
3) It will STAIN ! and the oddest thing you see colour changes were it is more damp than other places, more changes from UV and odd things like that over time.
4) Raw wood also absorbs smells etc... Over time it will absorb cooking smells, smoke from woodstove, cigarettes etc and more...
5) IF you have a woodstove, the exposed raw panels will hold ANY and ALL dust and every wood stove dumps a bit of ash into the air over time...
If you want to be hearing & making grumbling sounds over years, go with raw wood.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2021 08:45am - Edited by: ICC
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I have not used that lacquer product. I have used other lacquer finishes. They all produced a very smooth fine finish. However, I do not like to use lacquer as they produce very flammable, explosive fumes and you really need good ventilation and should wear a respirator.
If you are spraying any kind of finish you should also be wearing a respirator to avoid inhaling the fine airborne particles even with a water based product. If using a product based on various chemical solvents ( alcohol, oils, etc) you should also be wearing a respirator to keep that stuff out of your lungs.
Quoting: Steve_S BTW, Unfinished wood may seem appealing BUT there are Gotcha's to it ! 1) The wood will absorb & release more moisture - swell & shrink. 2) It provides wonderful dust grabbing & holding capability. 3) It will STAIN ! and the oddest thing you see colour changes were it is more damp than other places, more changes from UV and odd things like that over time. 4) Raw wood also absorbs smells etc... Over time it will absorb cooking smells, smoke from woodstove, cigarettes etc and more... 5) IF you have a woodstove, the exposed raw panels will hold ANY and ALL dust and every wood stove dumps a bit of ash into the air over time...
I agree with all that.
I do absolutely love the Varathane and the Minwax water based clear coats. Crystal clear finish, assorted degrees of gloss or no-gloss available. Yes, they do need multiple coats and some light sanding between coats but not too many things come wihout some work.
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ndthand1992
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2021 09:00am
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Steve_S & ICC - Thank you guys for you insights into this.
What would be your recommended application for the water based clear coats ? Roller , Brush ?
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Steve_S
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2021 09:29am
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I used foam"speedy rollers". They are the 6" wide ones with long handle and fine horsehair brush on the edging. Now I did setup a "station" where I could do 12 pieces and place them on a drying rack (100's of pieces so) and move onto the next lot. I literally spent days just doin that.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2021 09:48am
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I use top quality brushes. I do the boards on trestles I have in the shop. High enough so I don't have to bend over while working. Then I move those six or so from there to a drying rack of tiered arms along one wall. (I used to stain and clear coat long lengths of door, window and base trim to be used to finish carpentry.)
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Aklogcabin
Member
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# Posted: 12 May 2021 12:18pm
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Hello I, I was blessed by being able to do woodworking professionally for over 10 years . And have applied thousands of gallons of topcoats.
Urethane finish topcoats are the strongest most moisture resistant topcoat. I always use varathane brand.
Lacquers are next in line line for durability and moisture control. Then shellac. As far as the 3 main products available.
As per your requests non yellowing due to uv exposure, wood movement due to moisture.
Since I've only used shellac ( bug spit from bugs) on a few projects such as matching antiques, shellac can be noticed by its cracked glass appearance when old. Or when it has to be a food handling issue like a fruit bowl. My comments will be mostly laquer n poly.
I would use gloss varathane, brand polyurethane. The cloudy appearance in topcoats are caused by flatteners. To absorb sunlight. The sun will tone it down or use a semi flat as last coat. Yes it will be brighter after you first apply it but it will calm down on the gloss from age. Leaving a nice semi after a short bit but stays looks brigh longer, you can spray either water born or petroleum based. Polyurethane adheres to itself by mechanical means so it needs to be sanded between coats to be smooth. If on a ceiling don't worry about sanding the back but equal coats are suggested.
On a flat board like a 1x6 I'd use an old fashioned scraper. The blade on your hand plane will work too. Or just worn down 220 grit sandpaper wrapped around a block of wood. Used up 220 grit on a random orbit sander knocks it down pretty effectively too. Just don't sand through it. Wipe with a tack rag or vacuum or blow off residue if outside.
Laquer is a good product but not near as strong as polyurethane. Your kitchen cabinets are probably laquer finished as it dries fast. Laquer bonds by chemical reaction and melts into itself, self leveling some claim. I'm sold on deft brand. Petroleum based is very smelly but the new water born is a great product also. Both can be sprayed or brused. If I'm brushing laquer its usually with a foam brush.
Although laquer is self leveling and claims of no sanding needed are somewhat correct. It will swell the woodgrain especially swirly pines. So a quick sanding on the face after first coat will be required for a smooth finish.
To wrap up. For a ceiling or walls I'd use a water born laquer sprayed on. 3 heavy coats. Spray the backs first then flip em over for front, it won't matter if the topcoat is smudged a bit.
Or put a chip of wood under one corner to hold it up . You can get a cheap automobile paint sprayer for under 50 bucks n will work great go fast.
I also like to use extenson ladders for support horses when doing a large spray. Can really lay out a lot of boards.
Hey good luck man. Always happy to try to help others out n answer questions
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dixie53
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2021 09:13am
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Ive used the Sherwin Williams lacquer a LOT, Its really easy and forgivable, I put a first coat on heavy then a light sanding with 220 sandpaper after about 20 minutes, depending on temp, then an even second coat. Its great in not so perfect conditions because dust can just be sanded out and recoated. Fumes are incredible so make sure your vented well..
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deercula
Member
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# Posted: 7 Sep 2021 09:29am
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My builder used polycrylic. It has darkened very little. pics here.....
https://www.small-cabin.com/forum/6_6589_1.html#msg102253
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