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Princelake
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# Posted: 4 May 2021 09:54pm
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I’ve decided to keep moving forward with my cabin build even though lumber prices are nuts. For wall sheeting 7/16†osb is $45 and smart panels are $40. In a year or so I’ll be putting vinyl siding on. What should I go with? Should I house wrap smart panels?
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frankpaige
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# Posted: 4 May 2021 11:22pm
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Neophyte here. And could not gather much info on them from Dr. Google.
Questions?
Stability? R-value?
Would "think" that you would want to wrap either way?
Also? Is the difference only $5 per square/section? What is the size of ur mansion going to be?
This part of the process I enjoyed. The planning. But! I enjoy the heck out of the finished product. Enjoy the journey. Best of luck
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Brettny
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# Posted: 5 May 2021 06:05am
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What's the price if T1-11? Better than OSB and thicker than smart siding.
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Princelake
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# Posted: 5 May 2021 06:31am
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I’m building 16x24 so I’ll need around 30 sheets. $150 plus $130 for house wrap I’ll save. I’m worried if I put house wrap over smart panels it’d act as a double vapour barrier and moisture would get trapped. A couple years ago when I built my shed and outhouse I asked about the t1-11 panels and they looked at me like I had 3 eyes.
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 5 May 2021 08:41am
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For cost, I';d do housewrap on the studs, then over with the T1-11 panels. Of course, I would do real plywood T1-11 not the OSB version. But I hate OSB, so its just me. 
This way, your finished on exterior except paint, no cladding over it.
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ICC
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# Posted: 5 May 2021 11:06am
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Quoting: Princelake For wall sheeting 7/16†osb is $45 and smart panels are $40
Do you mean LP SmartSide panels? Some of their panels are not structurally rated. Confirm if what you are looking at is.
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Princelake
Member
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# Posted: 5 May 2021 12:25pm
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I was looking at the osb smart panels 3/8†thick. The ones that aren’t rated are the cement board panels
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snobdds
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# Posted: 5 May 2021 01:44pm - Edited by: snobdds
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I would use traditional 7/16 OSB or plywood if that is your preference. When siding, even with vinyl, you need a good nailing surface to nail into and more importantly…a nail needs to have holding power.
I don't think 3/8 with a nail in it would keep your vinyl from sagging over time.
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ICC
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# Posted: 5 May 2021 02:04pm - Edited by: ICC
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The proper installation of Smartside panels requires the use of a codeâ€approved breathable waterâ€resistive barrier between the siding and the studs. 3/8" seems thin though
I would be concerned about two layers of house wrap too if you added a second layer on top of the Smartside panels before installing vinyl siding later.
The best scenario would be to be able to sheath with the usual sheathing or Smartside, then the weather resistive barrier and then the vinyl siding. But most house wraps are only good left uncovered for 120 days, a few 9 months. There are some commercial-grade wraps that are okay to leave 12 months before covering.
Does the vinyl siding manufacturer insist on a house wrap layer directly under their vinyl?
OR, IF you are certain that vinyl siding will be installed next year, and if there are no inspections, maybe installing the Smartside with great care and NO house wrap under it, and sealing the panel joints would be okay until next year when you would wrap it and side it. ??? Though that still leaves snobdds concern about it being a good enough nailer for adding siding.
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ICC
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# Posted: 5 May 2021 02:15pm
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An alternative would be to build a rain screen wall over the siding panels when ready to install vinyl siding. that needs a lot of 1x3 or 1x4 and complicates your widows a bit id being done later.
Maybe best to hold off and do it all in one season
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Brettny
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# Posted: 5 May 2021 02:24pm
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A nail hardly holds in 7/16 OSB, much less 3/8. When I was putting siding over 7/16 osb on my porch I could pull the nails out that didnt go into the studs with my fingers.
I have felt the smart siding and how thin it is really turned me off to it. Also I have T1-11 that's been painted and is totally rotted is spots. So my choice for cheap (non vinyl) siding would be t1-11 and a oil based stain. Easy to re apply and nearly no prep.
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ICC
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# Posted: 5 May 2021 02:38pm
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Quoting: Brettny I could pull the nails out that didnt go into the studs with my fingers.
Use ring or spiral shank, hot dipped galvanized nails
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Princelake
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# Posted: 5 May 2021 05:58pm
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I just spent the money and went with the 7/16†osb and will house wrap and side the place next year with vinyl. In the next couple weeks stay tuned for building updates.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 6 May 2021 05:30am
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Quoting: ICC Use ring or spiral shank, hot dipped galvanized nails
They make ring shank roofing head nails to hold vinyl siding?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 6 May 2021 09:44am - Edited by: ICC
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an example....
https://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=15383
You can also get boxes of loose nails for manual hammer use.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 6 May 2021 11:37am - Edited by: Brettny
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I didnt know they made those. Thank you
I ended up nailing my siding through the OSB and into the studs.
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 6 May 2021 12:04pm
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We would try to hit at least some of the studs. Easy enough to snap some chalk lines as guides
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gringogigante
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# Posted: 7 May 2021 09:05pm
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Raw OSB is not a good idea. They are notoriously bad with water. You need pressure treated plywood for the floor decking. I used Zip sheathing system for my cabin I'm building right now. It's osb that has one side that's impregnated with weatherproofing compound. Then you seal the seams with Zip tape or liquid seam sealer. It's amazingly water tight.
It's hard to find but for smaller builds like this it's not that bad.
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ICC
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# Posted: 8 May 2021 07:24pm
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Zip sheathing panels are superb! However, std isb just needs a properly installed weather resistant barrier.
Why would you suggest PT for subflooring? Huber, the maker of zip panels, makes a superb sub flooring called Advantech. Not PT but extremely water resistant.
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maddiecycle
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# Posted: 31 May 2021 09:18pm
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I am about to sheathe a 12x14 weekend cabin in a dry low mountain zone of NorCal with hot summers and cool but not cold winters, lows can dip to 30 but not common to go lower than that.
After EXTENSIVE research I've decided to go without a housewrap. Does not to seem to bring benefit in this dry zone. Sheathing with caulked board+batten to cover the joints, R15 rockwool in the 2x4 framed walls, and then wood paneling (without drywall). There will be R23 in the roof and floor. With this dry climate with not-freezing winters, and the limitations of R15/23 insulation, I just can't see house wrap bringing an insulation benefit from the perspective of an air barrier, and the whole concept of a vapor barrier is generally debunked, with modern things like Tyvek functioning like Gore-Tex, letting vapor pass through.
Can anyone convince me otherwise to use a wrap? I plan to sheathe with the walls on the deck and then raise the wall with the sheathing in place, so I'd have to tie together the 4 walls' wraps at each corner after standing them.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2021 06:16am
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Air sealing is important when building a building. Board and batten isnt a very good air seal.
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Brettny
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2021 08:28am
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Air sealing is important when building a building. Board and batten isnt a very good air seal.
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maddiecycle
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2021 12:37pm - Edited by: maddiecycle
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Agreed an air seal is important when building a primary, full time residence with an eye towards maximal efficiency.
Not sure the extra effort to do so justifies the ends when building a 12x14 weekend cabin in a rather mild winter climate that will be heated with wood. I'm building this cabin 100% by myself.
Does anyone have specific reasons from a structural integrity, (i.e. not energy efficiency) perspective on why to air seal? I can't think of any. Thanks.
Edit - I guess the structural reason is to prevent condensation in the walls. The question is whether in mixed dry climates that makes a difference.
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ICC
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2021 06:13pm
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In such a climate no air barrier should not be a problem, IMO, for any structural reasons. Mostly housewrap would be to make it easier to air seal the walls. Caulking board and batten and doing a superior job of it will take a lot of effort and a lot of caulk. There may be a trade-off there on costs of caulk vs housewrap. ???
My past experience is that drafts can be a real bother, so I vote for an air barrier everywhere. Even if the hot weather is not so hot as to need A/C, cool weather is where I notice the drafts more. But that is me.
I live in a wildland fire-prone area and have not used any exterior products that can burn for years. I love cement-fiber board. There are ready to use types for siding, fascia and soffits. Coupled with the vents that are made to prevent ember entrance and windows that are made with tempered glass with frames that are constructed to hold the glass units in place even when subjected to high heat, that all makes a structure about as good as you can have to resist whatever the fire winds may blow at you.
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maddiecycle
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# Posted: 1 Jun 2021 06:49pm
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Thanks ICC. You make a good point about drafts and major caulking work.
I am also in a very high fire prone area. I am putting up structural LP smart panels as a single-layer, i.e. no siding above it and no gypsum below it. These panels, while wood, are WUI rated. I will use hardie board (cement) for the battens, and I am doing a metal roof, screened eaves and crawl space, fire rated door and windows etc...
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Brettny
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2021 01:14pm
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idk what WUI rating is but at the price of smart pannels could you use metal studs as perlins under the metal roofing?
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ICC
Member
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2021 02:20pm
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Quoting: Brettny WUI rating
Wildland Urban Interface
example of a standard
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toyota_mdt_tech
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# Posted: 2 Jun 2021 11:10pm - Edited by: toyota_mdt_tech
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Quoting: Princelake osb is $45
OK, it was in early April when I bought plywood and it was 54 a shet, while OSB was 45 a sheet, priced again yesterday, 1/2" OSB is now $65, plywood of 15/32 is $75 now.
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Princelake
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# Posted: 3 Jun 2021 06:49am
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That’s wild! Locally here it’s $57 for osb now and $71 for 1/2†plywood. My floor and walls are up. This weekend I plan to get the trusses on.
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maddiecycle
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# Posted: 10 Jun 2021 05:47pm
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Ok so another house wrap question.
If the goal of house wrap (besides driven rain barrier) is to block air movement and associated moisture in the air, and it is placed outside of the sheathing, that leaves the inward facing side of the sheathing within the built envelope and therefore in the same airspace as the living space. I don't understand how you could prevent condensation on the inside facing side of the sheathing without putting an airtight/vapor tight barrier on the INSIDE of the studs below the drywall/paneling or whatever.
I am doing a build with LP SmartPanels right on the studs, and no immediate plan for siding. So this will be just like a T1-11 build. Setting aside concern for wind-driven rain, how would house wrap in this configuration have any impact on the development of condensation on the inside-facing sheathing?
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