|
| Author |
Message |
xinull
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Apr 2021 01:30pm - Edited by: xinull
Reply
In another post, i was asking about replacing Pressure Treated wood for cedar to save money on the foundation. ICC recommended i try to save money elsewhere ;) Totally open to that
The one big expense i see is plywood and OSB. Both are crazy high.
I think i'd want to stay with plywood for the floors. I don't know why, Just a gut instinct. But i could be wrong.
what do you guys think of replacing the osb/plywood used on the walls and roof for milled boards instead? Or tongue and groove if they can mill T&G...
i haven't crunched the numbers, but my guess it would be a lot cheaper, although more time consuming to install. ...AND i'd have to provide diagonal bracing inset into the walls to prevent shearing.
what are your thoughts on this. I think these days, everyone is trying to save money where they can
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Apr 2021 02:05pm
Reply
In the 'old days' (pre-plywood, etc) boards is what they used, floors, walls and roof.
Even back in the early 70's my dad used T&G boards as the first layer of subfloor on the addition to the old farm house, diagonal on 16"oc joists. It was later covered with plywood.
All the farm buildings were boards, some had diagonal on the gable ends, some then covered with tar-paper then the mostly vert 'barn board & batten'.
|
|
Brettny
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Apr 2021 02:05pm
Reply
Save your money and wait for the market to lower. Cheaper only seams cheaper now.
|
|
ketchgould
Member
|
# Posted: 20 Apr 2021 02:52pm
Reply
After our last round of riots here in the Twin Cities, I removed about 40 sheets of 1/2" from the boarded up businesses for free.
I'm pretty sure there will be free plywood around here in a few more weeks again.
|
|
xinull
Member
|
# Posted: 22 Apr 2021 12:49am
Reply
Quoting: Brettny Save your money and wait for the market to lower
I really can't wait anymore. I was supposed to build this 2 years ago. Then last year's price were too high, plus i hurt my back...so i decided to push it back again...now i'm at the point that if i wait again, i have a feeling my wife is going to divorce me or just change her mind and i'll never get it built.
So I sorta have no choice. Just gotta figure out how to save money anywhere i can, without cutting corners. That's why i'm calling all the mills around
|
|
Steve_S
Member
|
# Posted: 22 Apr 2021 06:33am
Reply
Part of the reason for the costs of Plywood & OSB being so high, is that the main plant that produces the adhesives in North America is in Texas and it got closed & damaged during their Ice Storm. This is a reason I was given by a local Mill. TBH, it would not surprise me really.
Now a serious question.
Has anyone ever seen companies drop prices on products that got pushed up for any "external" reason ? Having been on this rock a few decades, I have not seen it, so please IF you have point it out...
I have renovated older homes where no Composites of any sort were used, no ply, osb or anything like that. 1" thick planks on walls and 2" planks for floors. When those were built, they also used Greenwood which when dried out opened up gaps between the planks and that does not help the air infiltration issues.
I am unaware of any code that prevents the use of planks/boards in favour of Ply or OSB. There may be restrictions on the use of "Greenwood" or even ungraded wood. This will depend on your region / locality - it varies between jurisdictions.
Wall construction would remain the same, either 16"oc or 24"oc, firestops/braces at 4', same nailing schedule. 1 nail per 2" width, so 2 nails per 2x4, 3 per 2x6, 4 per 2x8 etc... You could even use Advanced Framing technique without issue.
* GOTCHA *
Rough cut / straight milled lumber is most often not ideally sized because it is not "dressed" to size such as 2x6 (1-1/2"x5-1/2") it could be actual 2"x6" or even 2-1/8 x 6-1/4. You would need to PLANE the lumber for consistent thickness, width's also have to be "normalized".
Framing will more than likely have to be graded dressed lumber to pass any inspections. That will also make building a lot easier as everything is dressed to size. Imagine IF you had to plane each board and then run it through a table saw AND get it all straight, flat & flush... BTDT it ain't fun !
|
|
Brettny
Member
|
# Posted: 22 Apr 2021 08:16am
Reply
You should really start off by finding out if you can use ungraded lumber first. You should figure out the price difference between plywood and planks too. At some point it may be better to just pay up and buy the correct plywood.
Personaly I would not use green lumber. Sticker it and dry it for at least a year. You would not believe the amount of shrinkage you get with green pine.
|
|
xinull
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Apr 2021 03:35pm
Reply
I did find out the difference. If i replace all my plywood and OSB for 1"x8"x10' planks for the walls & roof. And 1"x8"x8' planks for the floor, i save about 2700$+tax. That's over 3000$ here in Canada, that's pretty amazing if you ask me.
...and i can use ungraded lumber
if my floor joist are 2x10 with blocking, 16 O.C.
are 1" boards be good enough, i would think so. Right now i got 2 different mills with good price for those boards.
One of them i know for sure, his lumber is a true 1" thick, but i'm not sure i can get the wood in time from that mill. The other i forgot to ask, so I'm not sure if I'm going to get 1" or 3/4". Let's assume 3/4" boards to be on the safe side. Would 3/4" boards be good enough for a floor, will i see any bounce from the planks themselves?
|
|
|
snobdds
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Apr 2021 03:53pm
Reply
How are you going to prevent racking and add sheer strength?
At a minimum I would use sheet goods at the corners to create shear strength on the walls. Then you have to figure out how to make the thickness of sheet goods and boards even up on the body of the cabin.
I would not put boards down on a floor. There is a reason we don't use those anymore.
|
|
xinull
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Apr 2021 09:12pm
Reply
Quoting: snobdds How are you going to prevent racking and add sheer strength?
i was going to 1x6 let-in diagonal bracing through my 2x6 studs. That's how they used to do it before plywood existed.
|
|
ICC
Member
|
# Posted: 30 Apr 2021 09:45pm
Reply
Stress testing has shown that diagonal bracing does not make as rigid a wall or roof assembly as sheet goods like plywood or usb. Those were done in a lab with full size walls, hydraulic rams and stress gauge instruments. As was suggested at least fully sheathing the corners with sheet goods (osb or ply) would make a much stronger structure. Then thickness matching is a bear.
Yes we used to build walls and roofs with boards. We used to use electrical wiring with no ground, we used to use lead in paint, water pipes and gasoline, we used to use single pane glass windows, we used to use a few inches of wood shavings for ceiling insulation, we used to do a lot of things that were dangerous, stupid or just not as good as we know now today.
|
|
Aklogcabin
Member
|
# Posted: 1 May 2021 07:43am
Reply
Yes you should be able to use boards.
|
|
Brettny
Member
|
# Posted: 1 May 2021 08:13am
Reply
So your going to save about $3k. How much more are boards over old plywood pricing? Generally 3/4in t&g sub floor plywood was about $32 (us) and 7/16 OSB was $10 (us)
Lumber/plywood prices will fall. Unless your homeless wait it out.
|
|
mj1angier
Member
|
# Posted: 1 May 2021 09:02am
Reply
I think 1" would be fine, not so sure about the 3/4" but I'm a fat boy and notice that kind of thing.
As far as how it was done vs done now... to me there are a lot of factors at play: does it have to be to code, do you want it to code, is code just the easiest way for .gov to make the cheapest dumbest builder safe, do you get stressed if in 5 years everything is not still plumb and square, are you doing work yourself or paying someone....
So to me there is no one answer that fits everyone. I personlly don't like .gov telling me what to do for myself, I like old houses with character ( floor leans a bit, door sticks a bit, ,,,), I don't like cookie cutter cabin/ homes, I like to work with what I have as oppose to wait for the perfect item....
But you have to find your comfort spot.
|
|
xinull
Member
|
# Posted: 1 May 2021 10:06am
Reply
lol, i get it, you guys are convincing me to go plywood/osb for the walls 
i just talked to my wife, and if we dont build it this year, she's divorcing me...i had said it before, and i was right
but still, nobody's replied to answer the questions about if 3/4" or 1" boards would be bouncy on a floor :p
|
|
xinull
Member
|
# Posted: 1 May 2021 10:12am
Reply
sorry about that, by the time i posted my message, i didn't see mj1angier's reply...didn't mean to sound pissy or anything
|
|
gcrank1
Member
|
# Posted: 1 May 2021 10:13am
Reply
3/4" boards will be a disappointment, then whatchagonnado?
There, now its been said.
|
|
xinull
Member
|
# Posted: 1 May 2021 10:15am
Reply
it doesn't have to be to code
|
|
xinull
Member
|
# Posted: 1 May 2021 10:15am
Reply
Quoting: gcrank1 3/4" boards will be a disappointment, then whatchagonnado? There, now its been said.
Thanks
|
|
ICC
Member
|
# Posted: 1 May 2021 10:19am
Reply
Quoting: xinull nobody's replied to answer the questions about if 3/4" or 1" boards would be bouncy on a floor :p
Depends. If the boards are the only flooring layer then they will likely flex. If their is a sub layer running diagonally and then a second layer of hardwood strip flooring running perp to the joists that would be solid. T&G boards gain stiffness by being locked to one another so a 1" T&G might be okay on 16" joist spacing. The more edges that touch the greater the chances of squeaks snd creaks too.
FWIW, IMO, codes are not just a government intrusion. Many parts of the various codes have come to be because over time we recognized problem areas and code changes were introduced as they prevent problems and do increase personal safety.
|
|
xinull
Member
|
# Posted: 1 May 2021 10:25am
Reply
Thanks ICC
I'm not saying i'm willing to completely ignore common sense and structural integrity. I was just answering that it doesn't need to meet code because it wont be inspected and probably wont be insured
As much of the odd and weird questions i've been asking to save money, i always take everyone's opinion into consideration in the end. This is a forum, and i'm just trying to gain more knowledge and insight a debate on alternate approaches
|
|
Brettny
Member
|
# Posted: 1 May 2021 10:43am
Reply
One thing to think of is 1in wet boards are prob going to shrink 1/4in along with the fact that they should really be planted after dried anyway.
I would almost buy the subfloor plywood over sheething plywood. You can always add T1-11 for siding later or any thing elae.
|
|
|
